Another 400-day clock to confirm (this one an Edgar Henn?)

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, all.

I have another 400-day clock this evening of which I'd like to confirm identification. This one is a miniature model with "Euramca Trading Corp" on the back plate. It seems to match Plate #1088 in the Horolovar guide, which would mean that it was manufactured by Edgar Henn ca. 1953.

Although this one looks rather standard as far as the dial, columns and base go, I always liked this one for having the polyhedron/octahedron/bi-pyramid weights/"balls" on the pendulum.

Thanks again for the assistance. I promise not to post any more clocks tonight! (but maybe tomorrow!)

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just noticed I hadn't had any replies on this one and thought I'd post a friendly follow-up.

If no one can confirm, that's cool.

Thanks!!

 

[ivancooke]

Hi S.S.,
Have looked at the Guide, and as far as I can see you are correct in your assessment.
Unusual locking device on pendulum, and why the heavy rod arched over the top of the backplate ? Some sort of protection ?




Ivan.

 

[shutterbug]

Pull the guard off and take another pic of the back. Could be plate 1087 or 1088 - both Henn clocks.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Pull the guard off and take another pic of the back. Could be plate 1087 or 1088 - both Henn clocks.

Hi, shutterbug.
Attached are pics showing the back plate with the suspension spring guard removed.
I'm still thinking it's plate #1088 since there are the two holes at the bottom from which the pendulum-guard-thingie is mounted. Plate #1087 does not have these holes.

Ivan, I've attached a couple of photos of the pendulum-locking mechanism as well. Hmm, it seems to me it might be installed incorrectly...I would expect the lever should be between the two posts that stick up from the base, rather than between one post and one column. However, I just noticed upon looking at these pics that one of the posts sticks up higher than the other. I just checked, and sure enough, the one in the foreground in the pics below (the "taller" post) has a spring in it and can be depressed. But it's sooo tight that I couldn't get it to depress enough to allow the rod to slide the rod over it; there's just not enough room to hold it down with one finger while trying to slide the rod over. (I tried so many times I've about killed my fingertips!) Anyway, it's a curious design.

As for the curved bar on the top, I'm not sure about that, either, but as you mentioned it would seem to be meant as some sort of protection.

Thanks!!

 

[John Hubby]

John, your clock originally had a dome with a hole in the top at center. The curved bar should have a threaded hole at the top center where the post was screwed that would have had the original dome locking washers and nut, some of them also had a loop or strap that allowed you to pick up the clock to move it. Henn, Reiner, and Schatz had most of these but a few other makers also had a model or two with this feature. I'm attaching a photo of a Reiner with this feature for info.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

John, your clock originally had a dome with a hole in the top at center. The curved bar should have a threaded hole at the top center where the post was screwed that would have had the original dome locking washers and nut, some of them also had a loop or strap that allowed you to pick up the clock to move it. Henn, Reiner, and Schatz had most of these but a few other makers also had a model or two with this feature. I'm attaching a photo of a Reiner with this feature for info.

Thanks, John!
You're absolutely correct--there is a threaded hole in the top of the arch.
I should have thought of that--especially considering I have a Schatz clock with a dome & handle like you describe, although with a different kind of arch feature.
Thanks again!
P.S. It's interesting that if the Henn still had the dome-with-handle, in order to safely carry the clock you'd have to take the handle & dome off first, then use the lever at the bottom to latch the pendulum, and then put the dome and handle back on again. Seems like that would kind of defeat the purpose of having the carrying handle in the first place.

 

[MuseChaser]

I realize I am VERY late to this thread (like, more than ten years, but hey, what's a decade among friends, right?), but I just acquired the same model clock, complete in good condition minus the usual broken suspension spring. Edgar Henn, plate 1088, stamped Euramca on the back plate. This is the only clock I have that you turn the pendulum adjustment clockwise to speed up instead of slow down.

I've got a question about the pendulum locking lever, and am hoping some of you WAY more learned folks can answer it. On either side of the swing extremes of the lever is a short post or stop; a stationary brass colored one to the right (as viewed from the front of the clock) and a spring-loaded depressable in unplated (steel?) metal to the left. I'm thinking that the lever is supposed to be able to swing past the retractable stop and that's how it is fixed or anchored for transport, but by the time the lever on my clock gets within 3/4" of that post, the adjustment wheel of the pendulum is firmly against the bottom circular guard that is screwed onto the backplate and I can't swing the lever any further. I don't see any adjustments available. What am I missing?

Thanks!

 

[KurtinSA]

If you move the lever part way and the pendulum is raised to contact the circular guard, what more do you need? I think that's it. I have one of these clocks, but never investigated the lock lever. I say you're good to go.

Kurt

 

[MuseChaser]

If you move the lever part way and the pendulum is raised to contact the circular guard, what more do you need? I think that's it. I have one of these clocks, but never investigated the lock lever. I say you're good to go.

Kurt

The lever doesn't stay in that locked position; if you let it go, the weight of the pendulum on the bottom support makes the lever swing right back to the "rest" position (clockwise) leaving the pendulum free.

 

[Wayne A]

What I did with mine is rotate the whole lift mechinisim by loosing the nut under the base. Set it so the end of lift point has the pendulum lifted where you want it to be and has the arm just on the other side of the spring loaded pin.

 

[MuseChaser]

What I did with mine is rotate the whole lift mechinisim by loosing the nut under the base. Set it so the end of lift point has the pendulum lifted where you want it to be and has the arm just on the other side of the spring loaded pin.

View attachment 623160

Makes sense..not sure why I didn't think of that. Thank you!

 

[MuseChaser]

Finally got a chance to do some initial work on this clock, mostly cosmetic cleaning, and built a suspension unit for it (.0023" Horolovar spring). I've got it in beat, but it only runs for maybe five minutes. The fork moves in kind of a jerky stop motion from one side the other, then just stops in one position while the pendulum slowly spins to a stop over time. The escape pallets and wheel LOOK like they're working properly and not binding, and the hands advance while the clock is running, but I confess I don't have the eye, knowledge, and command of terminology yet to fully understand some of the discussions here and in the Terwilliger book, and as I said it doesn't run for long.

I have yet to completely disassemble a clock, and know that's in my future at some point including a complete cleaning, but was wondering if there's something quick I could check prior to taking the plunge. Would be happy to furnish specific pictures at your request if that would be helpful.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[KurtinSA]

We're not there to see/hear how the clock looks or operates, so hard to find he "silver bullet". When I have a clock that doesn't keep running for very long, it's time to take it down and go through the steps. Once overhauled, you should reassemble the plates and movement without the anchor. Then try winding it one click at a time. Make note of when the escape wheel starts to turn. If it doesn't turn in at least a couple of clicks, you have too much friction in the train. If it turns easily, then the problem will be in the escapement setup - locks, drops, fork position.

Kurt

 

[MuseChaser]

Thanks, Kurt. I know that's the right thing to do, and will follow through. Just thought the jerky fork movement might be unusual enough to be a clue. I currently have two standard sized clocks running beautifully...1932 Kern and 1954 Schatz... and I don't remember that jerky fork motion but will check again. This Henn is the first small one I've worked on. Another strange thing....when I went to move tha hands to set the correct time, there is a LOT more friction/resistance when turning them compared to my other clocks. Does that mean anything important?

 

[KurtinSA]

Well, the jerky motion of the anchor pin points to something wrong with the escapement...it certainly suggests loss of power. As for the tight minute hand, it just means that the way the minute hand is connected to the usually just means that the "clutch" mechanism built in to the cannon pinion is tight and doesn't move easily. But you could have some meshing problems with the motion works. When you have the clock apart, separately put the center arbor in place along with the motion works and hands, then try and move the minute hand. Look at all those connections and be sure they spin easily.

Kurt

 

[Wayne A]

Often jerky movement like that is from the fork to pin contact points having worn notches or they are just too tight. I always go completely through a new to me clock before trying to get it to run checking everything.

I have a couple Edgar Henn that have tight hands, no real clutch on them just a couple of cupped washer springs under the minute hand attachment nut. Just they way they work.

Oh just to add that both of my Edgar Henn clocks are 450bph clocks so someting to be aware of. Also they have quite a bit of rotation on them 450+ degrees.

 

[whatgoesaround]

Is the spacing between the anchor and the fork about an index card thickness? You might be seeing the anchor pin jump between before engaging.

 

[MuseChaser]

Thank you ALL for the hints, suggestions, tips, and encouragement. I verified that the clearance between the anchor pin and fork arms was correct per suggestions. I then pulled the anchor out of the movement (after letting down the mainspring), wound it a couple clicks, and found that the movement would only move if I gave it a little encouragement. Only after winding almost a full turn would the movement run on its own, and even then it wasn't a uniform speed. SOooooo.. I screwed up my courage and completely disassembled my first clock, washed all of the components in warm water and Dawn, rinsed, isopropyl for drying, then reassembled using just the smallest drop of clock oil on the pivot bearings/bushings (or whatever they're called) and two small drops on the escape wheel teeth per a suggestion I read on another thread here. Without the anchor in place and a couple clicks on the main, the "train" (still getting used to using terminology I don't feel I have a right to use yet, since I have no idea what I'm doing) ran smoothly, rapidly, and without hesitation. Dropped in the anchor, wrestled with the suspension unit making SURE it was in line with itself vertically (not a big fan of the .0023" spring.... had a MUCH easier time with the .0036" on the Kern), then many iterations to make sure the beat was set correctly. Guess what..? THE CLOCK IS RUNNING! Been going for a few hours now. The pallets' interaction with the escape wheel still looks a little wonky.. hesitations here and there after releasing teeth as the pallets descend into the "lock" position... but it's running well on just over a full turn of mainspring.

Can't thank you all enough... very excited!

 

[KurtinSA]

Nice...you seem to have found one of the factors for the non running clock. The smaller clocks are much more on the edge in terms of running...all aspects of the escapement must be near perfect. I suspect you're clock will run but will it run for 400 days? We'll check back a little later on!

Kurt

 

[MuseChaser]

Still running beautifully! Quite thrilled.. and looking forward to getting started on the rest of the growing collection. Here's a pic of three done so far, including the Henn discussed in this thread. The Henn was a full tear down, rudimental cosmetic cleanup, and new suspension unit. The Schatz was a rudimental cosmetic cleanup (meaning acetone to strip lacquer, citric acid bath and steel wool, then polish/protectant on base, tower, and other non-movement parts, all hand done.. no serious polishing) and new suspension unit. The Kern is as we purchased it thirty years ago, just with new suspension unit and light lubrication at pivot points. All are running great! Can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help. Thank you.

 

[MuseChaser]

......

Ivan, I've attached a couple of photos of the pendulum-locking mechanism as well. Hmm, it seems to me it might be installed incorrectly...I would expect the lever should be between the two posts that stick up from the base, rather than between one post and one column. However, I just noticed upon looking at these pics that one of the posts sticks up higher than the other. I just checked, and sure enough, the one in the foreground in the pics below (the "taller" post) has a spring in it and can be depressed. But it's sooo tight that I couldn't get it to depress enough to allow the rod to slide the rod over it; there's just not enough room to hold it down with one finger while trying to slide the rod over. (I tried so many times I've about killed my fingertips!) Anyway, it's a curious design.

As for the curved bar on the top, I'm not sure about that, either, but as you mentioned it would seem to be meant as some sort of protection.

Thanks!!

For anyone else who's got one of these Henn small clocks, or if Spaceman is still out there.. a couple points I discovered regarding the above..

1. That spring-loaded keep post's spring pressure can be adjusted. There's a screw within the post you can access from the bottom of the clock that holds the spring captive inside the post. Screwing that screw in and out adjusts the pressure on the spring-loaded portion of the post. On mine, unscrewing that screw to the point of its head being flush with the bottom of the hollow post gave balance of positive pressure on the keeper with ease of depressing it when desired.

2. If you DO ever completely disassemble the clock, note that the two screws holding the two top corners of the back plate to the posts that the U-bracket inserts into (and the finial screws into) are slightly longer than the other corner screws for plate corners. This is to engage that U-bracket and prevent it from pulling out when you screw in the finial. Don't ask me how I learned that. Fortunately, I saw it happening when I had put the clock back together incorrectly the first time. Had I not screwed the finial on firmly and just stopped when it was only slightly snug, and then tried to lift the clock by the finial, the entire top would have pulled off and clock would have crashed to the ground. MAKE SURE those slightly longer screws engage that U-bracket!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

For anyone else who's got one of these Henn small clocks, or if Spaceman is still out there....

Still here! Been following the discussion. (I don't really dabble with the clocks as much anymore).
But thanks very much for sharing the info!
Happy Thanksgiving,
John