Andra Zwingenberger Lathe

[AGIreland]

New purchase an Andra Zwingenberger 8mm Lathe look is in very
good condition, most of the parts are there some of the step
chucks look like they were never used.
Have a Lorch 10mm LLN with an 8mm adapter. So I can use all the
collets and chucks on the Lorch.

 

[David S]

WOW! Very nice indeed. I like the fact that it can be set up more like a machine / engine lathe with cross slide. Awesome array of tooling.

David

 

[wefalck]

Production stopped in the early 1990s, after the iron curtain came down. Many former GDR-manufacturers were producing below cost in a market economy sense and had to close down. Their scroll-chuck manufacturer, Koch, though is still in business. Remaining Andrä&Zwingenberger stocks seem to have been bought by various people and parts pop up quite frequently on German ebay. So you may be able to complete your lathe with brand-new missing parts.

 

[AGIreland]

Thanks David S
it feels like a nice quality lathe. Next step is to get a
motor for it.

 

[AGIreland]

Hi Wefalck thanks for the info, do you know what the difference if any between
the black and green one is.
A milling attachment and the motor base would be nice for it. Il keep a look out
on the German Ebay for them when the funds permit.
If you have any other info on the the manufacturer of the lathe I would love to hear about it. Can't seem to find much info on Google

 

[wefalck]

Do you know Tony Griffiths' Web-Site: http://www.lathes.co.uk/andra/ ?

I think is pretty much sums up the story. The company was located in Limbach-Oberfrohna, near Chemnitz (or Karl-Marx-Stadt, as it was called during GDR-times).

In this little town several 'People's Factories' ('Volkseigene Betriebe', VEB) specialising in precision machinery were located. Saupe, who made small lathes, was one of them. Some of them were nationalised small private firms that continued to operate like small firms, often with their previous owners as managing directors. The scroll-chuck manufacturer Koch (http://kochmaschinenbau.de/en/products/precision-clamping-chucks/watchmaker-lever-scroll-chuck/) was/is one them. They made chucks for Andrä&Zwingenberger, Saupe, and others.

I can't comment authoritatively on the colours of the lathes, but would assume that black models are early ones, following the pre-war practice of painting small precision machines. Later, shapes became more angular and they seem to have switched to a light green (reseda green), which was the standard machine-tools colour in Germany, West and East. In more recent years they had a 'hammerite' finish I believe (of which personally I am not so fond of ...).

Georg Jacob GmbH, who are mentioned in above article on the Andrä&Zwingenberger lathes, were a major watchmakers' and jewellers' supply house from the early years of the 20th century on and located in Leipzig. They published elaborate catalogues in book form that today fetch high prices - I have the sought-after 1911 edition

 

[AGIreland]

Hi Wefalck
Thanks for the info, mine must be the later edition it has the Hamerite paint finish. Did a run out check today on the the swindle. Showing zero run out on my gauge. Gauge measures down to .01mm, looks like a good quality lathe.

 

[wefalck]

These lathes were largely made for the export to the 'West' and, therefore, had to compete with Boley, Leinen, or Bergeon products, though some of them have been manufactured in the Far East for quite a while. Hence, the quality was quite good and they were built to the standard you would expect from watchmakers lathe manufacturers up to the end of the 1960s. Pricewise they were not cheap, but very competitve. Somewhere I must have a catalogue from around 1990 that I picked up at a model engineering exhibition in the UK at that time. Too much money still for a poor civil servant at the time ... I looked into it, as in those pre-ebay days I was desperately looking for parts to complete my Wolf, Jahn & Co. lathe kit.

 

[praezis]

Around 1990, when Georg Jacob had been bought by a West German person and was cannibalized by him, they offered this lathe (with less accessories) for about DM 2500.- on their sale. That was not cheap. Also GDR products had no good reputation then.
Now I have a Andrä & Zwingenberger in my workshop (both crank and lever types) and am very satisfied with the lathe.

Frank

 

[Betzel]

Have a Lorch 10mm LLN with an 8mm adapter. So I can use all the
collets and chucks on the Lorch.

Does anyone know if the A&Z 8mm collets and Koch scroll chucks will work correctly in a Wolf-Jahn Geneva or Leinen WW spindle?

I've seen a few comparison charts including A&Z 8mm collet dimensions with keyways and threads somewhere, but can't seem to find one right now.

 

[wefalck]

I bought stuff from Koch (when they still made the chucks) directly at their factory. They offered arbors for either make of lathe. So it depends on what you got there.

Andrä&Zwingenberger is the modern incarnation of an old GDR outfit. Their standard stuff work with my 8 mm Lorch, Schmidt & Co. and Wolf, Jahn & Co. equipment. I bought stome stuff from their outlet in Limbach-Oberfrohna (were also Koch is located).

 

[Betzel]

Okay. Thanks!

The W-J had a 1.9 keyway and Leinen used a 2.0mm pin, so they only work the other way round, but will insert and thread up enough to tighten down and use. I'm looking at an older Koch 3-jaw with an A-Z specific arbor, so I think it will fit up in my W-J.

Seems like good quality from those decades, but you never know until you use it...

 

[wefalck]

The company Koch, not sure what they were called during the GDR times, when they formed part of a large 'Kombinat' that made all the precision mechanical equipment, has been making chucks for all the small lathes produced in the GDR. After the Iron Curtain came down, the company was bought out by their original owners I think and they invested into modern CNC machinery. They are still in business, but a couple of years ago decided to stop the production of these little scroll chucks and the arbors going with them. Now their chucks, used or old stock, fetch huge prices ...

 

[praezis]

A&Z collets and chucks will fit other 8 mm lathes, but their thread diameter is 7,0 instead of 6,85. There are threading tools available to widen threads of a collet holding bar.

Frank

 

[Betzel]

their thread diameter is 7,0 instead of 6,85

Thanks! That was what I really needed to know