Alphabetic Posting of Private Label Pocket Watches, Starting with "A"

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Ethan Lipsig, Apr 30, 2020.

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  1. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Many threads on this message board discuss private label watches, but very few of them solicit message board users to post photos of private labels by retailer name. I propose we fill this gap in an organized manner by posting photos to separate threads for each letter of the alphabet for each non-U.S. private label, recognizing that some of them will have U.S. movements.

    Post photos of non-U.S. private labels with last names beginning with "A" to this thread.
    When postings to this thread start to peter out, I will start a new thread for "B" private labels, etc.

    For purposes of this thread, treat any watch that has a retailer name on the dial, case, or movement to be a private label.

    Dave Coatsworth will add these alphabetic threads to his "sticky" thread on private labels. If many of you contribute, we will build an impressive survey of the range of watches each private label encompassed.

    I have posted a substantially similar thread in the American Pocket Watches forum, for posting U.S. private labels, including ones that used non-U.S. movements.

    My first non-U.S. private label begins with a "B." I will post it when I start a new thread for "B" private labels.
     
  2. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Does this include Anonymous ?
     
  3. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I don't see how "anonymous" could be a private label, but perhaps I am missing something.
     
  4. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    I was partially joking but an unsigned watch was usually left that way so it could become a private label.

    I see on the other thread that private labels are tricky for English watches Most English watches could be considered private labels in the sense that the name rarely is the company of person who did most of the work. Also makers who did a lot of work sometimes bought in watches from others full out theor line or accomodate a special order.

    I posted an example on the lovely ladies section which shows this and is also anonymous. It is almost certainly by Vacheron and Constantin, but the only identification is the marking "Examined by Charles Frodsham& Co."

    Here is the signature. cuvette.jpg
     
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  5. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    The name, in the main, on English watches was their guarantee. Buying a watch in Scotland, in say 1820 would be a problem, sending it back to the maker in Liverpool or London. Most of the names on these watches were those of Jewellers, with a repair service. Private Labels started in America, then world wide. Do private labels have a guarantee.

    Allan
     
  6. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

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    Ethan, I maintain a list of private label V&Cs, now numbering 137 mostly American retailers. While I have movement photos for all, those are in a separate folder and besides, they are remarkably similar. If you are interested in the names, where do you suggest I post?
     
  7. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I appreciate your zeal, but for the reasons discussed in related threads, until a more organized way of amassing private label information is available to us, I continue to fear that I made a mistake launching this and its related threads. I will send you a list of my V&C PLs by private conversation.
     
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  8. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Ethan, I think you did us all a service with these threads, a lot of people have given it some thought, and a lot of it as not been put into print. The private label is now running wild. It was not too long ago I read there were only four or five firms in Switzerland who actually made watches, the rest were Brand names, what you call private labels. Swatch was a great run as you know, and there were and are many others. So let the thread ride, you never know what will turn up. From me thank you for the ride.

    Allan.
     
  9. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

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    Hi Ethan!

    Do you means these? I upload some photos, but if it does not fit correct to the theme, please clear my post.

    1. A. Andrews - San Fransisco

    2. A. N. Anderson - ?

    3. Ayars & Son - Wilmington, Del.

    4. Anderson & Randolph - San Fransisco
    (maybe this equivalent to A. N. Anderson?)

    Maybe i have more examples also, but for this i must look trough very much picture;-)

    Regards! Peter

    a andrews by meylan 1_1.jpg a andrews by meylan 1_2.jpg a n anderson by meylan 1_1.jpg a n anderson by meylan 1_2.jpg A. Andrews by meylan 1_1.jpg A. Andrews by meylan 1_2.jpg A. Andrews by meylan 1_3.jpg anderson & randolph 1_1.jpg anderson & randolph 1_2.jpg ayars & son by agassiz 1_1.jpg ayars & son by agassiz 1_2.jpg
     
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  10. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Thanks for your post, Peter.

    The first watch you show, #43,406, is a bit of a puzzle to me. It likely was made by J.J. Badollet or possibly by C.H. Meylan, but it is missing the left-facing lion rampant Badollet or perhaps Meylan trademark normally stamped in the triangular plate between the regulator and escape wheel cocks. For an example of this, see your watch #43,242. I'd seen the movement before; I have a photo of it. It then had a simple regulator, now missing in your photo. My notes state that the dial was signed by both Andrews and C.H. Meylan. Please let me know if my notes are wrong in that regard. I assume they must be because it is unlikely that another Andrews dial would have been put on the watch since I last saw, especially one with the level of damage on the present dial.

    The third watch you show, # 43,242, is another Andrews' Diamond Palace PL Badollet or Meylan 3/4 plate movement. I have only seen one other of these PLs, #37,980. Unlike your two examples, it has a whiplash regulator spring. It has been recased as a wristwatch.

    The second watch you show, #23,328, is a C.H. Meylan Type C2 in my classification system. It is an A.N. Anderson PL. I have seen a few other A.H. Anderson C.H. Meylan PLs: #5,611 is a Type 13 40j/superior adjustment minute repeater/rattrapante/perpetual calendar/moonphase in 18k OF case (I wish it were mine!). #22,556 is a Type E1 21j/extra adjustment, uncased movement. #23,392, like your #23,328, is a Type C2 21j/adj. It is in a gold-filled OF case.

    I cannot identify your fourth watch, #91,459, or your fifth one, #812,691.
     

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