Age of Junghans Mantle Alarm Clock.

[Kieran McCarthy]

A friend asked me if I would try to get a clock working again which had been stopped for at least 60 years. It certainly had suffered, the case door was in 3 pieces, a large brass hinge screwed in place instead of the 2 small original ones. I replaced 2 finials that were missing, the third finial had a chunk missing from it into which I spliced a piece to maintain as much of the original clock as possible. I did not strip away the bad varnish job, I'll leave that to himself. The mechanism had also suffered from quite severe "screwdriver horology". All good now, however.
I would appreciate a "guesstimate" of its age as there is nothing on it anywhere such as a serial number etc., to determine the age. Pictures include back and front shots of the cam that operates the alarm and another of the lever that stops the alarm when it is ringing. It is my first experience working on an alarm clock such as this.
Thank you. Kieran.

 

[JTD]

It would be very helpful if you could post photos of the movement.

JTD

 

[Kieran McCarthy]

It would be very helpful if you could post photos of the movement.

JTD

Thanks, JTD. Please see attached. Aside from being extremely dirty, the escape wheel teeth had the tips of 5 or 6 of them torn off. I had to turn them all down to an even height and reprofile. About 50% of the exit pallet was sheared off so I had to fit a new anchor strip escapement and adjust depth accordingly. Other than that, plus replacing the suspension spring, there was very little wrong with the clock, the original springs were in excellent condition and no pivot holes required rebushing. As mentioned earlier, obviously a victim of a "screwdriver horologist". The clock is now running very well except the alarm makes a most incessant racket.

 

[new2clocks]

Kieran,

The picture of the backplate that is provided above is difficult to read.

Around the Junghans trademark on the backplate, are there any letters and numbers?

Can you provide a picture of the backplate after cleaning?

Regards.

 

[roughbarked]

Looks a bit like 86/88 are the numbers.
Can't make out a full Junghans star.

 

[Kieran McCarthy]

Thanks for your responses, everyone. With my friend calling tomorrow evening I would rather not remove the movement to check the back at this stage. Other than the faint 86/88, and the Junghans trademark star, there is nothing else on the clock anywhere, movement or case that might help. The face does have the Junghans star, it is a paper or card face on brass.

 

[roughbarked]

Does the star look like any of these? is the question.

 

[new2clocks]

Other than the faint 86/88, and the Junghans trademark star, there is nothing else on the clock anywhere, movement

The Junghans trademark (which is faint, but I believe I can see enough of it) was registered in 1890 and Junghans commenced date coding their movements in 1901.

Since your movement has no date code (as you stated), your clock was most likely made between 1890 and 1900.

Regards.

 

[AndyH]

Very interested in this thread as I have exactly the same clock. It was a present in 1987 and became the second clock I had ever worked on. My work was rudimentary and highly inexpert but (just) sufficient to get it running.... For a year or two after which it became increasingly temperamental and eventually stopped working again. So this thread is a useful reminder that I need to do a full and proper job on that clock and its about time it was moved up my clock to-do list. Thanks.

But the main reason I am really interested to see these photos is that mine came to me with the top finial missing and I had always hoped to one day find some information that would allow be to make a faithful replacement.

Any chance that, before you hand the clock back, that you could provide some hieght and diameter measurements of that top finial?

Anyway, to your original question re age. I remember doing some research when I first got my clock (it was pre Internet and I used books!) and concluded it was very late 19th to very early 20th century. Can't be sure without pulling the movement but I think the style of the stamp matches the fourth one in the list posted above by roughbarked

Andy

 

[new2clocks]

Welcome to the forum, Andy.

I remember doing some research when I first got my clock (it was pre Internet and I used books!)

Much research has been performed by NAWCC experts since the pre-internet days and, in many cases, have proved that the previous research / publications (especially with German clocks) to be incorrect. This includes trademark attribution and dating of the manufacture of German movements.

Junghans is relatively easy to date, since they date coded their movements after 1900 until the mid-1950s or so.

If you provide a picture of the back of your movement, we may be able to identify the year your movement was made.

Regards.

 

[Kieran McCarthy]

Very interested in this thread as I have exactly the same clock. It was a present in 1987 and became the second clock I had ever worked on. My work was rudimentary and highly inexpert but (just) sufficient to get it running.... For a year or two after which it became increasingly temperamental and eventually stopped working again. So this thread is a useful reminder that I need to do a full and proper job on that clock and its about time it was moved up my clock to-do list. Thanks.

But the main reason I am really interested to see these photos is that mine came to me with the top finial missing and I had always hoped to one day find some information that would allow be to make a faithful replacement.

Any chance that, before you hand the clock back, that you could provide some hieght and diameter measurements of that top finial?

Anyway, to your original question re age. I remember doing some research when I first got my clock (it was pre Internet and I used books!) and concluded it was very late 19th to very early 20th century. Can't be sure without pulling the movement but I think the style of the stamp matches the fourth one in the list posted above by roughbarked

Andy

I will make you one if you wish from mahogany or walnut and post it to you.....without cost. I've been woodturning for 40+ years. ( If you are in the S.F. area, I'll be there in late Feb and can bring it with me.) Alternatively, I can easily do a drawing and send it PDF.

 

[AndyH]

I will make you one if you wish from mahogany or walnut and post it to you.....without cost. I've been woodturning for 40+ years. ( If you are in the S.F. area, I'll be there in late Feb and can bring it with me.) Alternatively, I can easily do a drawing and send it PDF.

Hi Kieran
Ah - I hadn't spotted the wood turning profile pic!

No I am in the UK - so not easy to take up your kind offer.

The alternative of a PDF drawing would be greatly appreciated though.

Regards

Andy

 

[Kieran McCarthy]

Does the star look like any of these? is the question.

View attachment 689891

Thanks Roughbarked, your picture has answered my question, it's the second from the bottom. Much appreciated.
Regards, Kieran

 

[new2clocks]

it's the second from the bottom.

Kieran,

A note about the dates of registration that show in the miskrolisk site to which you refer.

The mikrolisk site does not always show the earliest registration of a trademark.

Trademarks have a limited life and need to be re-registered.

The dates that mikrolisk show above (except, perhaps, the last trademark) are re-registrations, not the earliest or original registration.

Regards.

 

[Kieran McCarthy]

Hi Kieran
Ah - I hadn't spotted the wood turning profile pic!

No I am in the UK - so not easy to take up your kind offer.

The alternative of a PDF drawing would be greatly appreciated though.

Regards

Andy

Hi Andy, please see the attached sketch, hopefully, it has enough information for you to work with. If all else fails, revert and I will run one off for you and pop it in a Jiffy bag to you. I'm only across the pond from you in Ireland, so not a great problem. Regards, Kieran.