After polishing Pivots

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by TEACLOCKS, Oct 1, 2018.

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  1. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    The process is good fun. It has to be planned meticulously, having a talk through/rehearsal of the process really helps to make it go smoothly and safely. I've always got my eye out for scrap longcase plates.
     
  2. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    What do you peen with Shimmy? I don't see a lot of hammer strikes around your bushings! :chuckling:
     
  3. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    I use these two staking/riveting tools, with domed rivet tool ends. They allow me to move the plate, and not the tool. Each tap can be well aimed as you move around the bushing. Every now and then i'll leave a mark next to the bushing if the plate slips! I really dislike that very much but often it's not very noticeable if that happens thankfully.
    After the excess brass is milled off from the peened bushing, obviously can't any of the peen marks in that, and the chamfer is full so giving a good fit and flat finish.
    Stakers.jpg
     
  4. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    I have to give you credit Shimmy, you take it to another level. I did acquire a 1-Ton Arbor Press in hopes of doing more controlled pressing but in my hands at this time my Vise is just as effective if not more so. There's too much brass there to peen/press I think. Thanks for sharing. :coolsign:
     
  5. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    There are Youtube videos on making a small foundry if you are so inclined.
     
  6. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Yes, I've watched a few SB. Some even charcoal fired. Thanks. I may play around with it at some point in time. We have an antique cabinet which is missing some brass hardware (handles) that I would like to duplicate. Nothing to do with Horology of course, but once you get your feet burned, the possibilities are endless. :)
     
  7. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thanks but to be honest, peening like that is in fact is very easy. A hammer and a doming punch would do it also. One of the advantages of using the kit in my picture is the support from underneath the bushing, plus the control.

    The smaller staking kit in the pic is my 'beating' one, I've another I wouldn't beat about, and use for what it was intended for. The larger tool is very useful for larger clock work, like English longcase wheel staking etc.
     
  8. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    I do have a Watchmaker's Staking Set. It comes in handy but of course the size limits just how much I can do on some clock movements.
     
  9. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I've been preaching the 'peening into chamfer' on various clock list for over 20 years now. On regular clock plates and barrel work, I use a 4 ounce polished face ball peen hammer and anvil, no fixture. I leave the extra metal standing proud to increase the bearing surface, unless it has to be removed.

    Shim has done some excellent work there ... beautiful! And he has a great photo that shows what the chamfer is supposed to look like in relation to the bushing.

    Willie X
     
  10. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thanks. I'd be knocking lumps out of the plates with a ball peen hammer, lol! You've got a better aim than me Willie X!
     
  11. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Lumps would be better than the dents I'd be trying to contend with shimmy! :mallet:
     
  12. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Ahem. Staking gizmo seems a little more accurate than whanging away with a ballpeen. JMO.:D
     
  13. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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    If I could find a Clock Staking tool Like the one you have pictured on the left I would buy it
     
  14. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    been there, done that.... those brittle little pivots terrify me. :cool:
     
  15. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    Couple of things: Insofar as I was able to find out in 1967, press-in bushings were pretty new and generally poorly-regarded.

    First, they seemed too easy to do, and second, they sometimes fell out. And the tools were expensive.

    So one alternative was to make your own riveted-in bushings with what some people called bouchons, which is just French for bushings but which in the US were semi-perforated lengths of bushing wire that could be broken off to make nice brass donuts. You'd ream out the worn hole properly with a five-sided broach, chamfer both sides, stick the proto-bushing in, and give it a couple of clops with a hammer to rivet the thing in. Then you'd ream the center hole to fit the pivot. I still use this method if I have a particularly oversize bushing hole, or if I'm feeling primitive, or I've run into a screw-in bushing or a worn-out Bergeon bushing. Only you can't buy the pre-scored bushing wire, so I have to lop off a length with some sort of saw, which generally takes longer than the remainder of the process.

    The other alternative we used was hole-closing punches. I don't use them, mainly because I can't find a decent set of the fool things.

    I'm finding that knurling a loose bushing between two coarse diamond files works somewhat better than Loctite. The green penetrating Loctite, however, does quite a fine job if you've got the bushing already seated but you're uncomfortable about it.

    I generally seat bushings with my favorite pair of smooth-jawed Pakistani parallel-jaw pliers. Failing that, I've also got a small Vise-Grip-style welding clamp pliers that can reach the center of most clock plates and shove in the bushing. I'm thinking of brazing ball bearings onto the jaws.

    M Kinsler
     
  16. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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    What power :???::???::???::???:?
     
  17. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Not sure I understand the context of the question TC? :)
     
  18. MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

    MARK A. BUTTERWORTH Registered User
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    For those interested in peening, a set of dapping punches are fairly inexpensive. I think I got mine at Harbor Freight but any tool place should have them. They usually come with a matching block. They are great for pounding out dents.
     
  19. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I think he means at which magnification of the microscope.

    Uhralt
     
  20. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
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    This is a very difficult question to answer.

    Some people have trained themselves as highly detailed while others may simply look at overall appearance. While neither is right or wrong, personal preference can have a great effect on the power used to achieve the results desired.

    In addition, the quality of the optics also plays a part to a even greater extent. My personal preference is German Zeiss optics but they can be very expensive. I also own a Chinese Amscope that are inexpensive and are not great compared to the Zeiss, but are probably one of the better inexpensive scopes.

    While I suspect I would be one of the detailed types, I have compared the same object under each side by side. Under the Zeiss, I can identify greater fine detail at 3 power than I can under the Amscope at 10 power.

    The answer to your question is that Opics are best experienced and selected by their personally inspected performance rather than specifications.

    Jerry Kieffer
     
  21. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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    YES


    Thank you
     
  22. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  23. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Thanks. The local crafts store closed so I'll give it a try.

    RC
     
  24. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    So, precisely how do you use these? I would have imagined that they'd be 'charged' with abrasives of various grit sizes, perhaps in oil or in water. Or is the idea to purchase fine abrasive paper and glue strips thereupon?

    The reason I ask is that I remember the first method from a very old British horology book, title unknown and long gone from my late father's effects. I have been using 'emery' (mostly crocus cloth) buffs from Timesavers for years now, and while they're not all that costly I seem to have enough worn-out ones by now to fashion a little log cabin in the pines.

    ---------------------------------

    I also have a set of diamond files: heavy and accurately rectangular, that I've tried using to polish pivots on occasion. They seem to work well enough, but I can't get the nice polish available from a Timesavers #6/0 buff. Timesavers

    These files have repeatedly proved their worth in filing absolutely everything and doing a good job. I can't seem to wear them out; they have grit on all sides.

    ----------------------------

    Mark Kinsler
     
  25. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Mark,

    You can buy self-adhesive lapping film by 3M which is made in a wide range of grits, from 100,000 (0.3 micron) up to 350 (40 micron). Stick strips of this to whatever base you like; I use narrow strips on those popsicle sticks, and on glass for producing a good flat polish with a screw head tool. This stuff, which is very consistent, is also made without the adhesive.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  26. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Go to your local grocery store and buy a box of popsicles, fudgesicles! Looks like the same thing to me?
     
  27. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    Thank you.

    But I did a Google search on 'self-adhesive lapping film by 3M' and promptly got lost amongst far too many choices. Is there perhaps a 3M part number or the like for the material you've recommended? The stuff sounds marvelous (and likely expensive.)

    I'm also trying to translate the numbers on the Timesavers 'emery buffs' into grit sizes or screen sizes. The Timesavers sticks I've used forever run from the coarse 1/0 (which will efficiently remove Hermle chrome plating) to the lovely smooth and brilliant polish of the 6/0, which when I happen to do it right renders the legendary 'black' polish.

    Mark Kinsler
    ever reliant on his betters
     
  28. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Mark,

    The stuff I mentioned is 3M 266X I believe, the non-adhesive version is 261X. I get it from Cousins in the UK and the 266X is certainly not cheap at £3.00 per sheet, but it lasts well if used sensibly and I do only need narrow strips of it for what I do. It may well be cheaper where you are, rather closer to Minnesota than I am! I've seen it on Amazon at $14.99 for 5 sheets.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  29. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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  30. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    Thank you and I shall buy some. I'll send in a report at such time as I ever polish another pivot, which likely won't be for a number of weeks.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  31. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Doc Fields' Original Recipe:
    Spray adhesive on the back of a sheet of abrasive paper.
    Lay craft sticks (popsicle sticks) on wet adhesive.
    When glue is dry, cut out the individual popsicle buffs. :emoji_thumbsup:
     
  32. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    Thank you, and I shall do that.

    Maybe that'll give me the opportunity to use up the fancy spray adhesive I bought (at the start of this segment of my horological career) for gluing paper clock dials. The spray has proven thoroughly useless for that particular purpose: it gets all over everything, sometimes penetrates the paper, and makes the paper curl right up if you carefully apply it to the new dial first.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  33. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I don't like the spray adhesives. That stuff goes everywhere if you like it or not. I use simple wood glue for gluing abrasive paper to popsicle sticks. Inexpensive and works great. I brush it on a sheet of abrasive paper and then put the popsicle sticks on it. Let dry and cut our the individual sticks. You can make a year's supply in a few minutes (plus the drying time).

    Uhralt
     
  34. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Whatever works for you, spray or brush. Glue the sticks to the paper, then cut 'em out.
     
  35. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    I tried this once and it works...........but in addition to polishing the pivot one should also polish the end of the arbor at the base of the pivot, a point that's often overlooked. I have an old machinist's scale and usually just place (no glue) a strip of fine paper extending a bit past the edge of the scale. When placed against the pivot the extra paper folds over the edge of the scale and polishes the end of the arbor at the same time. Finish off with Semichrome (or your choice) polish on a wooden craft stick which gets to the pivot and arbor end just fine. Clean thoroughly.

    RC
     

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