Afination Time Pocket watch Longines

nuno

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May 1, 2011
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Hello my friends,

yesterday i clean and oil my pocket watch longines , but now i am tested the time and i go a a litle slow. I put a litle left to fast the afination balance like you can see in photo. Please can you tell me in minutes how much is that space that I have in red in the photo?

I am teste a app and say the frequency are 17984 , is good? what is the normal frequency

Thanks

IMG_20210323_192244.jpg Screenshot_20210323_193758_com.athumbsoft.pendulumtuner.jpg ddd.jpg IMG_20210322_110518.jpg
 

svenedin

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How experienced are you in watch repair? Before you worry about timing the watch, I think there is something wrong with the hairspring. I cannot quite tell but it appears bunched up. Have you got the hairspring back in the regulator "boot" properly?
 

nuno

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Hello i am amateur, but i know when the hairspring are good or not. You can see in this photo i tink is perfect IMG_20210323_210427.jpg
 

Chris Radek

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The correct rate is 18000.

The marks on the regulator are not calibrated, so there is no precise answer to how many seconds or minutes per day correspond to your red mark. You could measure this though, by changing it one mark and running for 24 hours, and comparing.
 
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Skutt50

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I am teste a app and say the frequency are 17984 , is good?
This means that your watch is about 3 seconds slow per hour or some 75 seconds per 24 hours. (This match what your software shows. 1.13.)
Good? Not realy. It should be more accurate. How does it perform in other positions? You should as a minimum test Dial Down, Dial Up and Pendant Up.

How about amplitude? Is the balance swinging with good amplitude (280 degrees or more) or is it limping at much lower numbers?

Don't get me wrong now but when you cleaned the watch did you take it apart and in particular did you clean the balance jewels? (Remove cap, pegwood in the hole jewel) Being a Longines, (which I consider a quality watch), I would expect it to have the regulator arm in the center when regulated. You will have to move yours further towards Fast to improve the timekeepingn so something seems to be a little bit off.
 

svenedin

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When you moved the regulator did this alter the frequency as measured by your timing software/app?
 

nuno

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Hello my friend,

and I all glad to think that the delay for a pocket watch was reasonable. yes it works well in several positions, but I haven't tested it on the machine like that. yes it was all disassembled and cleaned on the ultrasound machine

you then put the regulator in the center to see your behavior
 

nuno

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i go test whit regulador in cnter and than see the information on app
 

Skutt50

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When you test it you can also check that the hairspring is centered between the regulator pins and is jumping back and forth between the pins.

Also to be on the safe side... Did you demagnetize the watch?
 
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svenedin

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When you test it you can also check that the hairspring is centered between the regulator pins and is jumping back and forth between the pins.

Also to be on the safe side... Did you demagnetize the watch?
I suspected the hairspring might not be in between the kerb pins of the regulator hence the question about whether the frequency altered when moving the regulator. This would also explain why the watch runs slow as there is no "dead" section of the hairspring. Great idea re magnetism. Hairspring still doesn't look quite right to me, bit bunched up but maybe the angle of photo.
 

svenedin

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You can buy a demagnetiser. Did you check the hairspring is between the kerb pins of the regulator?
 

nuno

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i tink the problem is the aplication , not is the best. Do you know any app free good?
 

svenedin

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i tink the problem is the aplication , not is the best. Do you know any app free good?
I think some people on here use the Watch Tuner Timegrapher app. It is not free though. I have not tried it as I have a timing machine.
 

karlmansson

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Nuno, there is no way that you can get an accurate reading from a phone app or otherwise without having a good pickup. You preferrably need a contact microphone or a very sensitive acoustic microphone and a very, VERY quiet room. Timing machines have a contact microphone (aka "pickup") that also holds the watch and allows for positioning to look for variances in rate depending on that.

I've seen you in the past working on some rather pricey watches. Are they your own or are you providing a service to someone? If they are your own I would suggest spending some of that money towards a cheap Chinese timegrapher. They are around 100 dollars or so. If you are providing a service, I would also suggest you get one as I think everyone involved would benefit from you being able to check the quality of your work. Even as a hobbyist I set certain standards in regards of timekeeping and rate that I am comfortable letting a watch leave my shop with.

By the way, I also remember the term "afination" being used in your previous posts. I take it this is a translation from Portugese. Could you describe it or put it in a sentence other than what you have already done? Because I'm not really sure what it means.

Regards
Karl
 

nuno

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May 1, 2011
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Hello my friends,

I try my eadphones and the Beat error it got better. (please look the attach photo)

All watches are from my collection. As in portugal it is difficult to find someone to clean the clocks. I decided to start doing this work myself, and it hasn't gone wrong. yes i already thought about buying timegrapher, but maybe pocket watches don't justify it, I'm not sure

When i say «afination», is how i can put the watch working to give rigth hours, because this Longines for exemple delay + - 2 minutes a day. For an old pocket watch, is delaying 2 minutes a day is too much or is normal?

Sorry my english Is bad:emoji_laughing:

Thank you all

Screenshot_20210325_193820_com.athumbsoft.pendulumtuner.jpg
 

Skutt50

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2 minutes slow per day on a serviced Longinnes is to much.

But to realy tell you need to check it in different positions.
If it shows the same 2 minutes delay in all positions you can adjust it with the regulator arm. In your case it looks like the regulator is set a bit to the Fast side. You need to move it even further towards Fast which hopfully will make it run well.

In order to center the regulator arm, the timing screws can be used. That way the timing can be correct with the regulator centered BUT this is something you should avoid. Many things can go wrong and you may put the timing and/or poise of the balance way off.

One problem area is what has been done to the watch in the past? Has perhaps some watchmaker been there and made adjustments? One such cheat is for example to gap or close the regulator pins or a hairspring that is not CENTERED between the regulator pins. In short don't change the timing screws before you properly checked all other possibilities.....
 

nuno

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Hello Skutt 50,

this is already too advanced for me. I don't want to spoil the clocks.

Now whit adjust in regulator, stay whit +9 seconds. Is good or not? is within the parameters of a pocket watch?

Screenshot_20210325_162026_com.athumbsoft.pendulumtuner.jpg
 

svenedin

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Looks good to me but remember that a pocket watch that is being used does not stay in one position. Typically in a waistcoat pocket it is pendant up but it may be dial up if placed on a table. Try your app with the watch pendant up and see what the difference is compared to dial up.
 

svenedin

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A time grapher is made for use with pocket watches and wrist watches. Can't see a reason why it would be less useful for a pocket watch?
Timegrapher works very nicely with pocket watches.
 

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