Adjustable or self regulating Hermle movements

Jmurrell

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I have struggled telling the difference between self regulating Hermle movements and the ones that are adjustable but they have to be manually put in beat.
Can someone tell me how I can tell the difference?
This is the one I am currently working on and I have not been able to get it to put itself in beat and I had to do it manually. Either this is what I need to do or the self regulating escapement needs adjusted somehow.
At any rate I will post some pictures if I can because every time changes are made on this site I have difficulty learning how to make it do what I need it to do.
I would certainly appreciate any help.
John Murrell

100_1878.JPG 100_1879.JPG 100_1880.JPG 100_1881.JPG
 

shutterbug

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That's the easiest way to tell them apart. The teeth on the auto-adjusters look like they are worn down. They are very short.
Your pictures also include shots of the chime mechanism. Are you having trouble with the auto-sync of the chimes too?
 
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Jmurrell

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That's the easiest way to tell them apart. The teeth on the auto-adjusters look like they are worn down. They are very short.
Your pictures also include shots of the chime mechanism. Are you having trouble with the auto-sync of the chimes too?
No I just took several pictures so that you could see it from different angles.
Thanks for the information. I have struggled with telling the difference and I probably should have seen the difference.
The big problem I am having is that these clocks that have the adjustable beat easily fall out of beat for the customers and many of them just cannot get them back in beat.
Can I tighten up the beat regulator on the escapement so that these clocks will be much harder to knock out of beat by my customers when they are restarting their clock if it has stopped or when they are adjusting the speed?
John
 

shutterbug

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They are made to adjust themselves. The customer gives the pendulum a wide swing and lets it settle into beat naturally. They aren't perfect, but close enough to keep it running.
 

Willie X

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It's not possible to "knock one out of beat". However, they will forever give trouble in a narrow case. Willie X
 
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Jmurrell

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It's not possible to "knock one out of beat". However, they will forever give trouble in a narrow case. Willie X
I am sorry but I was not talking about one with auto beat. The ones I am referring to are the ones that have an adjustable verge that someone has to put in beat.
John
 

Jmurrell

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I feel I need to explain something. When I made the original post I was trying to get advice about the difference between an auto beat movement and one that the owner has to put in beat and I got that answer thanks.
My next question was not about an auto beat escapement. It was about the ones that you have to put in beat.
When I work on tall case clocks I put them in beat at the customers house but if the customer forgets to pull the weights up and lets them run down then they will need to restart the pendulum and if they give it a big push they will knock it out of beat.
I have found that many customers are then not able to get them back in beat.
I thought if I could tighten up the escapement on these maybe they wouldn't be so easy to knock out of beat.
I have noticed on some of these that I have worked on after another repairman that that person had glued the escapement in place but didn't want to do that I just think if I could tighten them up it would help.
John
 

Willie X

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Jm,

I understand now ...

Yes the manuel beat adjusters can be tightened a bit. But, if you have a wide case and a uneducated customer, that probably won't cure the problem.

If you are sure the clock is good, just start charging them for a house service call. That will fix it! But, make sure there is no problem first.

Here is a photo of how this clutch is made on a Hermle 451. Moving the pressed on brass collar (at bottom) toward the pallet, by a TINY amount, will tighten the action.

Willie X

451 Hermle dead beat.jpg
 
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Jmurrell

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Jm,

I understand now ...

Yes the manuel beat adjusters can be tightened a bit. But, if you have a wide case and a uneducated customer, that probably won't cure the problem.

If you are sure the clock is good, just start charging them for a house service call. That will fix it! But, make sure there is no problem first.

Here is a photo of how this clutch is made on a Hermle 451. Moving the pressed on brass collar (at bottom) toward the pallet, by a TINY amount, will tighten the action.

Willie X

View attachment 651745
Thanks Willie I currently have 3 customers that have no idea how to get them back in beat. All their clocks have narrow cases. The problem for me is that I gave them a 1 year warranty because their movements are new. 1 of them is 1hr from my shop and the others are a good 2hrs, away. I don't feel I am in a position to charge while they are under warranty and that is why I was trying to make a bad situation better is possible.
John
 

Willie X

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No warranty should cover breakage or misuse.

Most people do not have a clue about how to set the beat. And, a manual beat adjustment should not be easy to upset, especially in a narrow case.

That's about it. :( Willie X
 

Jmurrell

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No warranty should cover breakage or misuse.

Most people do not have a clue about how to set the beat. And, a manual beat adjustment should not be easy to upset, especially in a narrow case.

That's about it. :( Willie X
Thanks Willie I appreciate the info.
John
 

shutterbug

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It's a matter of educating the customer. How to wind carefully, how to adjust the beat. When clocks were part of every home and sometimes every room, people knew how to do things like that. If you have people who don't want to learn, you'll have to charge them for your time. I wouldn't try to make their clock 'dummy proof'.
 
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Jmurrell

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It's a matter of educating the customer. How to wind carefully, how to adjust the beat. When clocks were part of every home and sometimes every room, people knew how to do things like that. If you have people who don't want to learn, you'll have to charge them for your time. I wouldn't try to make their clock 'dummy proof'.
Every time I put in one of these movements I try to explain how to set up the beat on the clock if they need to stop it to adjust the speed or if they should let it wind down and stop. I even put the clocks on a beat amplifier so they can hear how they sound when they are in and out of beat. I really wish they would learn how to do it because I hate having to drive 100 miles just to put someones clock back in beat. I wish the clocks were dummy proof.
John
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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In the case of modern clocks with automatic beat it is very rare that a clock case is too narrow to take the pendulum to one side and let it go to start the clock. The problem you mention is exactly the reason why automatic beat adjustment was invented.
 

Salsagev

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Automatic beat adjustment is great on my exposed Hermle skeleton clock. Never goes out out of beat. Seems like it is a good quality movement compared to the chime ones.
 

Willie X

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IMOE, Nearly all of the older style (so called) Grandmother Clocks will give trouble with an autobeat movement. Willie X
 

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