Adams & Perry serial numbers

Greg Frauenhoff

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A recent thread suggested that it might be worthwhile to post info on these watches on our board. I don't collect or keep track of them, but I spent about an hour this morning looking at some pictures (all publicly available somewhere) found on the internet or in auction listings, old NAWCC message board threads, and old watch publications, and came up with the following serial numbers of the early Adams & Perry mvts. All of those listed below are marked Lancaster, etc. Years ago Tom Richards was collecting info on these, but I don't have any contact info for him.

There probably aren't any new finds in the list, but it's a place to start. Feel free to add what you know.

1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1363-"
1366-"
1448-"
1452-"
1474-"
1585-"
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
2042-Nickel
2045-"
2077-"
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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There's a famous nickel and gilt example pictured in Sauer's Hamilton book, but I don't own a copy. If anyone does they can add it's serial number to the list.
 

Kent

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There's a famous nickel and gilt example pictured in Sauer's Hamilton book, but I don't own a copy. If anyone does they can add it's serial number to the list.
It's 1530, marked Lancaster, on page 153

Page 291 has a Lancaster-marked Adams & Perry watch that's not easy to read (nor is it identified) but it looks like No. 1456
 
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dweiss17

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Gentlemen:

Adams & Perry never finished one watch, Lancaster, when they took over the former building, finished an estimated total of about 100-150. Most in gilt, a few in nickel and two in two colors.

I have a full list some place, I'll try to find it.

There may be 37-38 in existence. The future 2013 NAWCC Calendar features a nickel A&P...#2032 in the NAWCC Museum collection.

BTW: No one has an Adams & Perry touted as #1. It does not exist.

#1415 is owned by an individual who shall remain nameless. Two colors. It once belonged to Colonel George Townsend.
 
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Greg Frauenhoff

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Thanks to all for the contributions. In less than one day we have already collated a significant number of s/ns.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.

1568-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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1201(?) (Townsend line drawing)
1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1363-"
1366-"
1391-"
1408-"
1415-Nickel & Gilt (ex Townsend)
1448-Gilt
1452-"
1474-"
1530-Nickel & Gilt (see Sauer's Hamilton book)
1568(?)-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
1585-Gilt
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.
2032-Nickel
2041-"
2042-"
2045-"
2077-"
 

dweiss17

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Greg:

1868 should be the serial number. The Adams & Perry building was not being built until at least 1874-1875. So the one you "quote" must be a serial number.

Remember, very few records exist from that first company except what is written by historians of that period, and often they are in conflict.

Does #1868 have the Lancaster inscription on the plate?
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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If anyone is interested in the history of Adams & Perry, the best source (though it should not be considered 100% accurate) is Crossman's account from the 1880s. Gibbs did a write up for the Bulletin (his major source for the history was Crossman (as I recall)) on Adams & Perry and Lancaster years ago.

Personally, I think someone who is interested and has the time should go through the local newspapers of the time for tidbits and info on the Company. I did such when researching the Aurora Watch Co. and you'd be surprised what terrific info can be gleaned from even minor newspaper accounts.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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1357-Gilt (message board picture posted by George Meyer)
1795-? (Desmund Lundy's, temporarily lost in transit to Canada, but it eventually turned up.)
 

burt

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I did a quick bulletin search(now that I know what to look for)and I think the artical that Greg is refering to by Gibbs is:Centennial of Watchmaking in Lancaster,Pa. Bulletin No.173 December 1974.
 

burt

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Wow what a read! If what Mr.Gibbs says is accurate it answers a lot of our questions.Please don't shoot the messenger!:D
About A&P "on April 7,1876 the first watch was reported finished on a rush basis".This is our 19 size 20 jewel.Nothing is said about any more watches finished. On May 16 the company closed it's doors.
Now about a year later a Mr W.N.Todd (old Elgin guy)shows up to inspect the buildings(no one wants to buy the place) and "Concluded that with $20,000he could finish and put on the market the approximatley 800 (left over or not finished?)movements,some which were financially encumbered". Now the company of "Lancaster Watch was formed in August 1877".Mr Gibbs then goes on to talk about the watches we now refer to as Lancasters.
The artical also pictures movements #2041 and #2077. Doesn't comment on finish but I think we can guess what they are.
 

burt

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I apologize but I had to stop reading .The article continues under the new named Lancaster factory."Only a few of the old Adams and Perry movements were finished as the new machinery was attuned to produce the new movements.Somehow,despite encumbrances,the bulk of the old movements found their way to the scrap bin".
 

Tom McIntyre

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I think this needs to be read carefully. Crossman has a tendency to the dramatic.

There were issues with Perry's original design (not Bowman's he was a junior watchmaker at the time). Charles S. Moseley and W. H. Todd were brought from Elgin to straighten out the design and the production approach. Moseley did not stay long, but Todd did and almost certainly designed the final form of the Adams & Perry we see today. He also was responsible for the design of the Bowman watch. (That is my read on the history based on a lot of scattered information over about 25 years of reading on the subject.)

The only real source of conclusive information is the movements that still exist. By the standard statistical analysis we normally use there should be 1,000 gilt A&P watches and 100 Nickel. Since they were outstanding quality watches the survival rate is probably around 20%. That means there are a lot of missing ones still out there.
 

burt

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I saw these two offered for sale by Mr.Lundy.Talked with him yesterday and I think they were sold.
1795 gilt
2005 nickel
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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1201(?) (Townsend line drawing)
1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1357-"
1363-"
1366-"
1387-"
1391-"
1408-"
1415-Nickel & Gilt (ex Townsend)
1448-Gilt
1452-"
1474-"
1530-Nickel & Gilt (see Sauer's Hamilton book)
1568(?)-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
1585-Gilt
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
1795-"
1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.
2005-Nickel
2032-"
2041-"
2042-"
2045-"
2077-"
 

Harvey Mintz

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And yet another:

1774 - Gilt, marked Lancaster (dial and movement)
 

Bryan Eyring

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Gentlemen:

Adams & Perry never finished one watch, Lancaster, when they took over the former building, finished an estimated total of about 100-150. Most in gilt, a few in nickel and two in two colors.

I have a full list some place, I'll try to find it.

There may be 37-38 in existence. The future 2013 NAWCC Calendar features a nickel A&P...#2032 in the NAWCC Museum collection.

BTW: No one has an Adams & Perry touted as #1. It does not exist.

#1415 is owned by an individual who shall remain nameless. Two colors. It once belonged to Colonel George Townsend.

It appears that my earlier post was deleted by the moderators so I will repeat my original, simple, unbiased question: Dan, how can you claim, with such conviction, that #1 does not exist?
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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1201(?) (Townsend line drawing)
1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1357-"
1363-"
1366-"
1387-"
1391-"
1408-"
1415-Nickel & Gilt (ex Townsend)
1426-Gilt
1448-"
1452-"
1474-"
1497-"
1530-Nickel & Gilt (see Sauer's Hamilton book)
1550-Gilt
1568(?)-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
1585-Gilt
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
1774-"
1795-"
1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.
2005-Nickel
2023-"
2032-"
2041-"
2042-"
2045-"
2077-"
2488-? (ad cut showing a mvt marked "ACME Stand'd Am'n Watch Co. Pittsburgh"
 

Tom McIntyre

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It appears that my earlier post was deleted by the moderators so I will repeat my original, simple, unbiased question: Dan, how can you claim, with such conviction, that #1 does not exist?
Brian, I don't know where Dan picked up that information either. However, the watch that is marked E. H. Perry, No. 1 predates the founding of the Adams & Perry company, so one could readily argue that it is not an Adams & Perry although it does resemble one.

I believe that is what the owner of the watch told me some years ago, but my memory may be failing since I am only 20 years younger than Dan.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Greg, you missed the 2047 in my post, I believe:)
Oops!

1201(?) (Townsend line drawing)
1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1357-"
1363-"
1366-"
1387-"
1391-"
1408-"
1415-Nickel & Gilt (ex Townsend)
1426-Gilt
1448-"
1452-"
1474-"
1497-"
1530-Nickel & Gilt (see Sauer's Hamilton book)
1550-Gilt
1568(?)-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
1585-Gilt
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
1774-"
1795-"
1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.
2005-Nickel
2023-"
2032-"
2041-"
2042-"
2045-"
2047-"
2077-"
2488-? (ad cut showing a mvt marked "ACME Stand'd Am'n Watch Co. Pittsburgh"
 

dweiss17

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Tom McIntyre:

Since you were not around as long as I have been...in the 20 year disparity in our ages...perhaps I picked up a little more in the field of knowing when a person (not you or me) whose ego is bigger than his bulk tries to inflate in his [own mind] what a pocket watch is or is not.

Sorry, I'm not permitted to post the EH Perry picture of his 1871 pocket watch. (Is there a way around that copyright by the owner, since it was published by Chapter 56?)

Dan
 

dweiss17

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I am a member of the NAWCC going into my 47th year and my integrity and honor has never been questioned by many of our past movers and shakers…whom it was my good fortune to know personally as friends and colleagues in this wonderful NAWCC. And, I have the respect of our NAWCC leaders of this current age.




In part, it starts with my saying there is no ADAMS & PERRY pocket watch marked as No.1. All Adams and Perry inscriptions were done by the Lancaster Watch Co.

Someone owns a watch made by EH Perry in 1871. It has no inscriptions in designating it as Adams & Perry No. 1. I have a copy of the catalog in which that timepiece appears. Sadly, it is copyrighted, so I cannot publish it here. And the A&P structure is different from the EH Perry model in a number of ways. A picture of the bottom plate would be total proof!

I have even offered to make a substantial donation to the NAWCC for definitive proof of a watch inscribed Adams & Perry Watch Company and marked as No. 1.

Sadly, NO TAKERS!
 
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Bryan Eyring

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Dan and Tom, you are very confused, the model watch you are both referring to is NOT the watch about which I am speaking. The watch I am referring to is a true Adams & Perry and is serialized "1". This watch has not been photographed, will not be , and even if it were I could not post photos of it.

The simple but seemingly hard point I am trying to drive into our eldest member is that simply because we have not seen something does not mean that it doesn't exist.

In closing I would like to add that the individual you claim "whose ego is bigger than his bulk" has an additional 50 numbers for this list which he is now unwilling to supply in light of your recent slander against him.

~Bryan

"Win the battle, lose the war."
 

Michael R. Dutton

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I'd like to think that the better person would ignore the silly name-calling and provide information that would enlighten all of us - isn't that the purpose of this site?

Otherwise, it seems to me that maybe the very subject of Adams & Perry should be forever locked away and never spoken of again.

It seems to me that every time this subject is raised, hackles are raised and the battle begins.

In my humble opinion: Balderdash!!
 

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Absolutely right, Michael. I am a disinterested outsider in this childish argument, but I am becoming bored with Dan's attempts to spoil interesting threads with his obsessive feud with Jon Hanson. Jon was banned from contributing to this board (well before my time) allegedly for unacceptable behavior, and unless Dan stops this nonesense the same should be done to him.

Michael is right that Dan cannot possibly be certain of the non-existence of anything, whether that is life on another planet or Adams & Perry #1.

I also think it sad that 50 serial numbers should be locked away from those genuinely interested in the subject, possibly to die forever with the owner. I just don't understand the sense behind it, but that is, and must be, entirely Jon's decision.
 

burt

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Gentlemen,
When the watches(we now refer to as Adams and Perry) were marked when finished do you think that Lancaster Watch refered to the company that finished the movement?If the answer is yes then anything finished prior to theAugust 1877 Lancaster start date date would I guess be marked differently.I think I was given good advice not to take everything to the bank written about the A&P company.Do you think at least the statement"on April 7,1876 the first watch was finished on a rush basis"is accurate? Most manufactures do build proto-types of their products anyway and due to the financial status of the company does this story sound logical? Well if a watch was built how do you think it would be marked? Honestly I'm really just trying to learn.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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In closing I would like to add that the individual you claim "whose ego is bigger than his bulk" has an additional 50 numbers for this list which he is now unwilling to supply in light of your recent slander against him.
All least people still have a sense of humor. No one I know believes that this "individual" (who?) was ever prepared to supply "an additional 50 numbers for this list" on our message board.

Anyway, would the moderator please cleanup the needless banter (including this post of mine) so that this thread can continue its intended purpose as a place to post info on Adams & Perry mvts.

Greg
 

Jim Haney

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Greg,
Your request is not possible with the MB rules. That would involved deleting 8 different people's posts and although they are drifting off topic they are not breaking any rules, per say.
I can lock this thread as I did on the previous A&P thread and you can start another with an opening statement that it is only for posting known A&P numbers and I will keep all nonessential posts from side tracking the thread.
OR, you can update the serial number list as a last post on this thread and I can watch this thread and keep it clean from here on out.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Below is a scan of the one of the most famous watch trade cards of all time. It shows a cut of mvt #1269 marked "Lancaster Watch Penna." (Adams & Perry type of mvt). The date of the card is unknown, however, based on the jeweler's imprint on the back and the history of the jeweler in question (D. H. Scofield & Son), it probably dates to no earlier than 1883. It also is touting the "Lancaster" watch. So, it's rather interesting that in 1883 (or maybe later) a Company selling "Lancaster" watches was using a cut of an Adams & Perry type of mvt on their trade card.
 

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dweiss17

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Greg:

Your post of the Adams & Perry watch card is very sharp and clear. I used a copy from another member when I wrote the Adams & Perry story on another Chapter who are no longer permitted to be associated with the NAWCC.

Thanks for posting. I will see if I'm permitted to post the entire story here if I remove certain names from the story.

Dan
 

Bryan Eyring

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My apologies to all, my intent was not to de-rail this thread but simply to make some analytical points about collecting, namely that we should not build our assumptions about a manufacturer simply from what we have observed, but rather on evaluation of facts about practices of similar and pre-existing establishments.
Now can you deduce that I'm of a scientific background? :p

I think it would be pretty safe to say that something like a freesprung helical pivoted detent Waterbury is likely never to present itself but something as simple as a marking variation on an established manufacturer's product is rather plausible.

Let us not limit our assumptions strictly to observations, but rather to knowledge about the culture of the industry at said time period.

As for name calling, there's no room for it but silly or not different people react to it in different ways. In this case it resulted in a reluctance to release the information...which is rather unfortunate.

This will be my last post on this matter but feel free to continue bantering away. ;)

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Now can you deduce that I'm of a scientific background?
As are many others who regularly contribute here (including yours truly...BS, MS, PhD).

something as simple as a marking variation on an established manufacturer's product is rather plausible.
Agreed.

Let us not limit our assumptions strictly to observations, but rather to knowledge about the culture of the industry at said time period.
No doubt. Which is why I have a library that includes trade periodicals, ephemera, etc., and have read the standard histories; as well as researched in great detail (digging into roll after roll of 19th century newspaper microfilm, writing to historical societies across the country, strolling the stacks of major research libraries, etc.) some of America's minor makers such as Aurora and Rockford.

Greg

P. S. One of our participants in this thread has decided to check the 19th century Lancaster newspapers to see what might be found therein.
 

dweiss17

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Thanks to all who took the time to engage in this discussion in regards to Adams & Perry inscribed serial watches by the Lancaster Watch Co.

The collection of serial numbers on these watches has been enlightening...that is what the NAWCC is all about...presenting facts.

Any court in the USA will not permit hearsay to be part of any proof in any case it will be involved with...so it should be with us whom engage in all aspects of horology.

We can only learn from one another when true facts are presented and not presented without definitive proof.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Dan, et al.,

If you come across any more #s feel free to post them here. As for an Adams & Perry #1, I have no idea if such a beast exists or not (its existence really wouldn't change things as regards the overall production of A&P or Lancaster much...it would still be just one, albeit very very collectible, watch). It certainly would be neat to see such, but if it's in black hole somewhere then we can never know for sure. That's the trouble with black holes. On a related note, there have been rumors dating back about 60 years of several Aurora watches marked "No. 1". If such do exist they too are in a black hole.

1201(?) (Townsend line drawing)
1269 (not a picture of an actual watch but rather from an old adv. cut)
1353-Gilt
1357-"
1363-"
1366-"
1387-"
1391-"
1408-"
1415-Nickel & Gilt (ex Townsend)
1426-Gilt
1448-"
1452-"
1474-"
1497-"
1530-Nickel & Gilt (see Sauer's Hamilton book)
1550-Gilt
1568(?)-Nickel---movement is signed only "H. G. Turner" and there is no serial number visible on the train plate. On pillar plate underneath the dial (which was missing) is a "1" over "568". This one passed through the well known auction site earlier this year.
1585-Gilt
1681-"
1687-"
1747-"
1762-"
1774-"
1795-"
1868 (possibly intended to be a date rather than a serial number??...or maybe not) has a monogram between "18" and "68" that I can't make out (see Ehrhardt 1980 price indicator page 92). Nickel plates.
2005-Nickel
2023-"
2032-"
2041-"
2042-"
2045-"
2047-"
2077-"
2488-? (ad cut showing a mvt marked "ACME Stand'd Am'n Watch Co. Pittsburgh"
 

burt

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Thanks to Greg's suggestion I'm looking into some 19th century written documents and newspapers.There is more to come but I wanted to share this:
When I checked into the "Barns Directory of Lancaster County 1875-76" I found the Adams and Perry Watch Co. listed as having its office at 3 1/2 N.Queen St.This was before they moved to the new buildings on the Columbia Pike. It's basically the same adress of the Zahm's Jewelry Store in Lancaster.Mr.E.J.Zahm is the person who was elected President by the new board of Directors of A&P on June 13th 1874.Interesting what was to become the great Hamilton Watch Co. started out with a small office within a jewelry store. On the second floor was the S.C.Miller Co. who sold liquor and tonic herb bitters. The directory also lists:
John Adams,supt,Adams & Perry watch works h(house) 216 E.Lemon
and
Edw.H.Perry,supt watch factory h 349 N.Mulberry
I also found two area newspapers who were serving the area during the time A&P was in business.The Columbia Spy and the New Holland Clarion.I be working on these and the Intelligencer Journal a Lancaster paper.
I hope I can report back to the board using this thread on what I can find of interest?
One additional comment.Like the example #2488 "Acme Stand'd Watch Co. Pittsburgh.When dating watches and documents from Pittsburgh It may help to know that the city lost it's "H" during 1890 thru 1911.So from 1758 to the present with the 21 year exception we have our "H".
.
 

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Tom McIntyre

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I am so glad you are doing this. I hope you will also review the articles on Adams & Perry in the Bulletin archive.

John J. Bowman was member No. 1 of the NAWCC and was an historian of Lancaster County as well as being in the watch business. He gave a presentation in 1945 to the society covering the watchmaking history of the county. Some of the narrative may have been influenced by family oral history, but the 52 page article is at least extensive. It is Vol XLIX, No. 2 and was popular enough to require a second printing, which is what my copy is from.

The family oral history gives Ezra F. Bowman a higher rank in the proceedings than he may have deserved and it ignores the visit of Charles S. Moseley and the work of W. H. Todd (who probably actually made the Bowman watches and modeled the working version of the A&P).
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Burt,

Good luck with your search.

I have a number of "clippings" from various trade periodicals pertaining to the Lancaster/Keystone Watch Cos. during the time frame 1883 to early 1890s. I scanned these for an interested party a number of years ago, but I don't think he ever did anything significant with them. Somehow they ended up in a Chapter 149 picture database. If you want, I can photocopy what I have and pass them along to you for your research.

Greg
 

burt

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Fellows you have no idea how much I appreciate your kind words and support.What I was hoping to do is supply the dumb and wishing that luck will allow me to find something new or supporting information what we know about Adams and Perry.Maybe a person who is really qualified can do a updated Bulletin article on this important and early company.I intend to keep working and with your permission posting what I can find.While you are waiting here is a period advertisment from the store of the "New President of A&P Mr.Edward J.Zahm".
 

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dweiss17

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Gentlemen:

In the near future an entire (article) piece will be posted here with complete text and pictures. It's a story I wrote about finding an Adams & Perry watch in the basement of a watch supply store going out of business.

It was written in January 2008, on another Chapter site no longer in the NAWCC.

The MB is going through changes in the near future and the story will follow.

Again...no Adams & Perry #1 watch exists...thanks to all whom contributed the serial numbers. Hearsay...is just that hearsay.

Dan Weiss
 

burt

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Before we put the Lancaster Directories aside, I would like to share some information that I found. I confess that I find it a little intimidating looking for new material that has probably been researched by the many true scholars of our board. But perhaps some of this will be new to someone.

In rviewing Mr. Gibbs 1976 Bulletin Article he states that John Best of his "Engine and Boiler Company" donated space for the actual factory building. I found that this location was listed as being on 333 Fulton. We now know where the office and factory building were located. I wish that I lived a little closer to Lancaster (hint) and could visit and photograph what remains, or is now at these locations.

1877-1879: As expected, I found the Adams and Perry Watch Company along with Mr. Adams gone from the listing. Mr. E. H. Perry, the watch guy, with his patents is now listed as a cutlery manufacturer. So Perry goes from making watches to forks, knives and spoons.

1879-1880:We find the first listing for the "Lancaster Watch Factory". Mr. A. Bitner is listed as manager and the location Columbia Pike North at College Avenue.

1879-1880: In the Business and Professional Men of Lancaster, PA (a different document) we find Ezra F. Bowman, watchmaker, living at 127 Shippen. Also I found his advertisement using a familiar movement to us. Looks to me like #1289. Greg, is this a new number or are we reporting your
1269 as the same ad?

1882-1883: The factory is now listed as "Lancaster Watch Company LTD.",
Columbia Avenue near West End. John J. Hartman, President, P. McCaskey, Secretary and John D. Skiles, Treasurer are listed. (West End Avenue runs southeast from Columbia) No doubt the naming of the West End model. I think the change in address is because the physical size of the watch factory was expanded.

1886: I found the first listing for the "Keystone Standard Watch Company", Columbia Pike. Abran Bittner is listed as manager.

Okay, okay ! I am getting way too ahead of myself. Let me get back to where I should be working in the 1870's.
 

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dweiss17

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Burt:

Thank you for doing what you are doing in bringing back to life a story about an American watch factory that never completed one watch before they closed.

Truth in horology is the best answer to those that try to spin stories about this Adams & Perry Watch Manufacturing Co. with fabled nonsense.

In your research you may find Hankin's Pharmacy of Columbia, PA as one of the oldest firms still doing business there...today, it also features a busy restaurant as part of its enterprise and long history.

Also, did you know Columbia, PA almost became the Capitol of the United States when the British invaded our country in the days of our Revolution? Columbia lost out by two votes of the "Then powers that be."

Keep up your interesting research. In the near future a story with many photos will appear concerning the Adams & Perry Watch Manufacturing Co.

Send me your address, I’ll mail you the 2013 NAWCC Calendar featuring early American pocket watches in the NAWCC Museum collection…including A&P #2032.

Dan
 

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Tom McIntyre

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Gentlemen:

In the near future an entire (article) piece will be posted here with complete text and pictures. It's a story I wrote about finding an Adams & Perry watch in the basement of a watch supply store going out of business.

It was written in January 2008, on another Chapter site no longer in the NAWCC.

The MB is going through changes in the near future and the story will follow.

Again...no Adams & Perry #1 watch exists...thanks to all whom contributed the serial numbers. Hearsay...is just that hearsay.

Dan Weiss
Dan, the absolute is probably pretty tenuous in this matter. If I wanted a Lancaster gilt movement marked number 1, I could easily have it made. I could even have a nickel one made if that was desired. I sold a rough nickel movement that came in a lot with another watch that I really wanted some years ago. I believe I got $1200 for the nickel movement but I do not really remember. It was rusty and ugly and I did not want it. However, I have a friend who could have taken the plates down to remove the serial number and re-damaskeened them so that no one would notice.

If there were 200 (at least) gilt Adams & Perry movements scrapped back in the 1880's it seems entirely reasonable that at least one of them may have been finished as a project by one of the watch workers and engraved with the No. 1 to indicate it was his first watch. Such occurrences are very common in the history of American watch making.
 

dweiss17

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Tom:

I understand the likelihood very well.

However, with the tools employed today in discovery...it would be fairly simple to tell when the engraving was done and if the plates on such a number #1 were shaved or altered.

I kinda think I'm on fairly safe ground. In regards to an Adams & Perry watch #1 appearing out of nowhere...as the original timepiece.

We have many skilled forgers in all fields of life, including horology. I doubt any ever tried to forge an Adams & Perry #1.

Even the super-skilled engravers of our USA money plates and coins cannot duplicate the exact same thing twice.

Tom, tenuous or not, I stay by my thoughts put down on paper.

Thanks for looking out for my integrity...I think it's still unblemished.
 

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