about LE ROY & FILS BY LOUIS AUDEMARS 'Superior watch'

tian

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Jan 14, 2018
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quote from auction house
"This kind of watch is at the time of their creation recorded in the archives of the house Louis Audemars in the register of "Montres supérieures” (Superior watches)"

want to know more about the similar same level of quality's Superior watches. their history or background. (providing photo from catalog or books are appreciated.) anything to do with achieve data also i am chasing.
any information about Le Roy et Fils and Louis Audemars would also be deep appreciated. since i am very interested in this watch maker and their history.
any information about this specific piece would be have my highest gratitude. (this piece serial no/ 9294)

feel free to comment and discussion.

enjoy the fotos




1.png 2.png 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg IMG_5167.JPG
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Tian, this watch not only looks like a Louis Audemars watch, but similar looking watches are depicted in Zantke's tome on Louis Audemars, #32 at pp. 262-263 and #53 at pp. 312-319.

#32 has a dial and movement very similar to the watch in your posting. Zantke describes it as a circa 1867 watch with (1) two small dials for telling time in two time zones, (2) minute repeating, (3) Reaumur thermometer, (4) simple calendar (i.e., not a perpetual one), (5) rattrapante, (6) seconde foudroyante, (7) seconds hand, (8) lunar age and phases.

#53 has a dial that looks quite similar to the dial on the watch in your posting, and it is a Leroy & Fils signed watch. Everything else about the watch is different. This is one of the greatest Louis Audemars watches. It has everything #32 has, but (1) it has two separate movements for each of the time zones, (2) its calendar is a perpetual one, (3) it has independent dead center seconds, (4) it has a dial on the back of the watch. This watch was made between 1865 an 1872.

If you are interested in Louis Audemars watches, the Zantke book is a must.

The watch in your posting and ##32 and 53 are extremely impressive watches.
 
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Audemars

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The "Register of Superior Watches" is one of nine books which form the surviving Louis Audemars archive.
The Register contains the consecutive serial numbers of watches and movements from #11855 to #12378. Each page is dedicated to one watch/movement or a small number of similar watches/movements with production start dates from 1872 to 1874.
The Register also shows shipment dates, detailed descriptions, the names of the purchasers, the various cost elements, the names of the operatives who worked on the pieces, the various metals and their costs, and where appropriate the case maker. I attach a typical page.

2-127 La Royale.jpg

At that period the Louis Audemars company had three quality standards - "Second", "First" and "Superior". As well as their enhanced finishing, the Superior products included some of the most complicated watches made in the 19thC.

If 9294 is the Louis Audemars serial number, it does not appear in the surviving Register, nor in any of the other stock books, (but the archive is sadly incomplete).
#9293 is present, in a work-in-progress inventory book dated 31st December 1865. At that time the book-keeping was very primitive and few details are available.
#9294 is in my opinion a bit questionable for such a complicated watch and the similar examples quoted by Ethan have much later 5-digit numbers (see below)
43233 is certainly the LeRoy serial number. If there is another serial number on the movement - particularly if it is a 5-digit number, I will be very interested.

The numbers 32 and 53 to which Ethan refers are Herr Zantke's numbering. The Louis Audemars serial numbers for those watches are 10517 (32) and 11820 (53). Both pieces are outside the number range of the surviving "Register" and do not appear in any of the other inventories or ledgers. #10517 was included in a list of significant watches compiled by my great-grandfather.

As Ethan says, Herr Zantke's book is essential reading if you are interested in the Louis Audemars story. It was published in about 2003 (I did large amounts of the English translation from the German) but before the discoveries of the surviving Louis Audemars archive in 2005 and 2007. Further details of the history of the company and its several successors (but no technical stuff) can be found at www.audemars.co.uk

Paul
 

Dr. Jon

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Lovely watch.

One of the usual features of superior grade watches is the internal click on the winding wheels. Luis Audemars is not the only maker who used them but when they are in a Louis Audemars watch it is their superior grade.

These were some of the best watches every made by anybody.

Several firms used this grading scheme.

There were several Leroy companies but this was almost certainly the 19th century house who sold very high end watches in Paris and London.
 
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tian

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The "Register of Superior Watches" is one of nine books which form the surviving Louis Audemars archive.
The Register contains the consecutive serial numbers of watches and movements from #11855 to #12378. Each page is dedicated to one watch/movement or a small number of similar watches/movements with production start dates from 1872 to 1874.
The Register also shows shipment dates, detailed descriptions, the names of the purchasers, the various cost elements, the names of the operatives who worked on the pieces, the various metals and their costs, and where appropriate the case maker. I attach a typical page.

View attachment 639094

At that period the Louis Audemars company had three quality standards - "Second", "First" and "Superior". As well as their enhanced finishing, the Superior products included some of the most complicated watches made in the 19thC.

If 9294 is the Louis Audemars serial number, it does not appear in the surviving Register, nor in any of the other stock books, (but the archive is sadly incomplete).
#9293 is present, in a work-in-progress inventory book dated 31st December 1865. At that time the book-keeping was very primitive and few details are available.
#9294 is in my opinion a bit questionable for such a complicated watch and the similar examples quoted by Ethan have much later 5-digit numbers (see below)
43233 is certainly the LeRoy serial number. If there is another serial number on the movement - particularly if it is a 5-digit number, I will be very interested.

The numbers 32 and 53 to which Ethan refers are Herr Zantke's numbering. The Louis Audemars serial numbers for those watches are 10517 (32) and 11820 (53). Both pieces are outside the number range of the surviving "Register" and do not appear in any of the other inventories or ledgers. #10517 was included in a list of significant watches compiled by my great-grandfather.

As Ethan says, Herr Zantke's book is essential reading if you are interested in the Louis Audemars story. It was published in about 2003 (I did large amounts of the English translation from the German) but before the discoveries of the surviving Louis Audemars archive in 2005 and 2007. Further details of the history of the company and its several successors (but no technical stuff) can be found at www.audemars.co.uk

Paul
what a honor to reply your comment. i considered this is some kind of way i linked with the magnificent watch maker.

do you able to provide anything that is available for the #9293. it might help me.

i will get you the number on movement. to see if its a 5-digits

"#10517 was included in a list of significant watches compiled by my great-grandfather. " - where can i find that list. (i already know besides 10517. 11820 is also definitely in that lists. it is a watch sold to the spain King in that time) also kind of interested how will the register will look like for 11820.

i will check the website. and might contact them to see if i can dig anything.

thank you so much that providing much more than i expected information that i seeking.

Tian
 

tian

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Tian, this watch not only looks like a Louis Audemars watch, but similar looking watches are depicted in Zantke's tome on Louis Audemars, #32 at pp. 262-263 and #53 at pp. 312-319.

#32 has a dial and movement very similar to the watch in your posting. Zantke describes it as a circa 1867 watch with (1) two small dials for telling time in two time zones, (2) minute repeating, (3) Reaumur thermometer, (4) simple calendar (i.e., not a perpetual one), (5) rattrapante, (6) seconde foudroyante, (7) seconds hand, (8) lunar age and phases.

#53 has a dial that looks quite similar to the dial on the watch in your posting, and it is a Leroy & Fils signed watch. Everything else about the watch is different. This is one of the greatest Louis Audemars watches. It has everything #32 has, but (1) it has two separate movements for each of the time zones, (2) its calendar is a perpetual one, (3) it has independent dead center seconds, (4) it has a dial on the back of the watch. This watch was made between 1865 an 1872.

If you are interested in Louis Audemars watches, the Zantke book is a must.

The watch in your posting and ##32 and 53 are extremely impressive watches.
thank you Ethan

i appreciate the photos and the information. #32 and #53 are definitely similar level of master piece. and 4000 france is a good info to know that is the cost of the #32 which i believe will be the about same to the piece i posted.
 

tian

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Jan 14, 2018
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Lovely watch.

One of the usual features of superior grade watches is the internal click on the winding wheels. Luis Audemars is not the only maker who used them but when they are in a Louis Audemars watch it is their superior grade.

These were some of the best watches every made by anybody.

Several firms used this grading scheme.

There were several Leroy companies but this was almost certainly the 19th century house who sold very high end watches in Paris and London.
hi nice to write to you again master Jon.

"There were several Leroy companies" are those several company created by the same family house but different families member? how can i distinguish them?
 

Ethan Lipsig

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"There were several Leroy companies" are those several company created by the same family house but different families member? how can i distinguish them?
I am no expert, but the LeRoys were an extended family of watchmakers. The earliest prominent LeRoy was, I believe, Pierre who was a very important watchmaker. He trained a relative, Julien, who started a separate business that was more successful commercially that Pierre LeRoy's business, but less important horologically. Julien brought his sons into the business, which then became LeRoy et Fils. That firm then was taken over by another relative and become Louis LeRoy.
 
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Audemars

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Tian,

As I said, 11820 does not appear in the Register, or anywhere else in the LA archive, which is incomplete.
The only reference to 10517 is in my great-grandfather's list. 10517 also does not appear anywhere else in the archive.

I will send you a .pdf file of his list.

9293 appears in a work-in-progress inventory dated 31st December 1865. There are very few legible details other than it was a minute repeater movement with anchor escapement, 19 "lignes" diameter (about 43 mm), destined for an "open face" case. It had a book value of 480 Francs.

Paul
 

tian

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Tian,

As I said, 11820 does not appear in the Register, or anywhere else in the LA archive, which is incomplete.
The only reference to 10517 is in my great-grandfather's list. 10517 also does not appear anywhere else in the archive.

I will send you a .pdf file of his list.

9293 appears in a work-in-progress inventory dated 31st December 1865. There are very few legible details other than it was a minute repeater movement with anchor escapement, 19 "lignes" diameter (about 43 mm), destined for an "open face" case. It had a book value of 480 Francs.

Paul
a very valuable list to me. thanks

the watch i post is
20''', gilded brass, with two going barrels, gold train of wheels, straight-line equilibrated lever escapement, compensated balance with gold and platinum poising screws and blued steel hairspring with terminal curve. functionwise: minute repeater, DEAD INDEPENDENT SECONDS WITH FOUDROYANTE(1/5 jump second) AND DÉDOUBLANTE (SPLIT-SECONDS), DATE AND DAY, PHASES OF THE MOON, SECOND MERIDIAN(double timezone), small second hand AND THERMOMETER;

which refer to the list the closest watch would be 10517. since 10517 is also missing. and there looks only have 2 watches have foudroyante function is higher than this post version. the 12112 and the 10384. may i have a look of thier archieve please?

thanks
 

tick talk

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any information about this specific piece would be have my highest gratitude. (this piece serial no/ 9294)

feel free to comment and discussion.

enjoy the fotos
I am enjoying the discussion and photos. Is this watch 9294 in your possession? Its not clear to me if this post is about a watch you own or one you are interested in.
 

tian

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I am enjoying the discussion and photos. Is this watch 9294 in your possession? Its not clear to me if this post is about a watch you own or one you are interested in.
it is a watch in my friend possession. i am being the ambassador to study and learn more about this watch in the forum (already got permission to do so from the owner of course). also myself are a big fan of master watch maker LA.
 
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