Abe Lincoln's most used watch?

[artbissell]

Heard it was a Wm. Ellery in silver case. Waltham ad of 1920+ shows open face. 50958 silver 11j. Would this one be very like it?

 

[garnal]

According to Carlene E. Stephens, Curator, Division of Work and Industry, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution Lincoln's everyday watch was an English lever in an American gold case, sold to Lincoln by George Chatterton, a Springfield Il. The American Watch Co. watch you refer to is a Wm. hunting case sn 67613 in a Waltham case no. E279 and was given to Dennis Hanks (Lincoln cousin) in 1864, making it impossible for Lincoln to have it for more than a year.

 

[artbissell]

garnal: That should settle the speculation about it. This 1863? junker actually has an English hallmark silver case. I expect Lincoln got presented a lot of watches and bought few. This one recently oiled is yet a good timekeeper.

 

[garnal]

Historical documents I've read shows that Lincoln was also given two other gold watches. One is at the Chicago Historical Society and is Swiss, the other is at the Kentucky Historical Society. Since there is quite a market in forged Lincoln artifacts, unless there is providence provided anything Lincoln is assumed to be faked.

All three gold watches (Smithsonian, Chicago and Kentucky) has excellent providence, also the Wm Ellery that was given to Dennis Hanks has excellent providence along with the ones given as presidential gifts.

The Dennis Hanks Wm. Ellery has moon hands for hour and minute and the case has DFH engraved by Joseph Dikob of Charleston, Ills. The Bulletin has my article on the watch in the October 2008 issue. You can find an actual picture of the watch there.

 

[ben_hutcherson]

I'm curious as to whether anyone has any additional details on the one that's in possession of the Kentucky Historical Society. I've been attempting to find out what I could since reading about it in an old issue of the bulletin, however details seems scarce.

It's been a few years since I've been through the Kentucky History Center, and don't recall the watch being on display(although I wasn't really interested in watches at the time and could have missed it). I suppose I don't have much excuse for not finding out locally what I could, since the entire Kentucky Historical Society collection is house within 10 miles of where I'm sitting now, however I'd be curious to know a few more details before I go on a wild goose chase.

 

[Clay Buchanan]

The William Ellery watch is still "missing", correct?

 

[garnal]

As near as I know, it is still missing. Probably owned by a Lincolnian Collector. If it shows up, it should have DFH engraved on it along with the case serial no. E279 and of course the movement # 67613. The last time I've seen it sold was by Parke-Bernet Galleries in New York City on February 20, 1952. I occasionally check the auctions of Lincoln artifacts, so far, no luck.

 

[artbissell]

Good info about one Abe Lincoln watch here in new posting. There were others but I guess still not identified. 1923 Waltham ad shown here shows open face silver model 57 as a user. artbissell

 

[artbissell]

Good info about one Abe Lincoln watch here in new posting. There were others but I guess still not identified. 1923 Waltham ad shown here shows open face silver model 57 as a user. artbissell

However, he actually used some kind of early open face silver case more like the 50k serial Boston Watch Co. Ellery shown here in my opinion. Had several watches as gifts but his user was like his own practical personality I am guessing. And maybe not even marked Waltham.. Any updates for this 5 year old thread? Art

 

[ben_hutcherson]

Since my original posting, I have had the opportunity to examine the watch in the KHS's possesion(which has a superb provenance, I'll add)

It's a Jules Jurgenson, Copenhagen and shows relatively heavy use so I suspect it was at least used some. This watch was wound and the ticking recorded for background sounds in the "Lincoln" movie a few years ago.

 

[artbissell]

My guessing not very good. A J. Jurgenson used by Lincoln is a real surprise to me. I also am confused about the age of my 50958 Ellery from Boston Watch Co.

 

[topspin]

As near as I know, it is still missing. Probably owned by a Lincolnian Collector. If it shows up, it should have DFH engraved on it along with the case serial no. E279 and of course the movement # 67613. The last time I've seen it sold was by Parke-Bernet Galleries in New York City on February 20, 1952. I occasionally check the auctions of Lincoln artifacts, so far, no luck.

So, is this like the new horological holy grail then, or is there a bigger one?

 

[ben_hutcherson]

So, is this like the new horological holy grail then, or is there a bigger one?

In terms of American watches, it's really just another '57 model Waltham Ellery, albeit one with a very interesting provenance and of course very valuable as a result of that.

In horological terms, IMO, it's not a very interesting watch. To "scratch the surface" of American horological holy grails, see the last couple of Bonhams sales(and I know that there are a lot of other even better watches in private collections).

A "holy grail" 57 from a watch collectors' stand point would be the one reported American Watch Company grade 57.

 

[Clint Geller]

In terms of American watches, it's really just another '57 model Waltham Ellery, albeit one with a very interesting provenance and of course very valuable as a result of that.

In horological terms, IMO, it's not a very interesting watch. To "scratch the surface" of American horological holy grails, see the last couple of Bonhams sales(and I know that there are a lot of other even better watches in private collections).

A "holy grail" 57 from a watch collectors' stand point would be the one reported American Watch Company grade 57.

From a narrow, strictly horological point of view, I must agree with you, Ben, that the watch isn't that interesting. But there is a much larger sense in which it is of immense interest. For if it is true that this watch was frequently carried by our greatest president during the greatest, most defining struggle in our nation's history, then it very likely bore silent witness to momentous events. One can only guess in what historic moments Abraham Lincoln might have consulted that watch.

As for horological "holy grail" watches, here is a "Model 1857" that gives the one American Grade example a run for its money: a helical hairspring Model 1857 signed "A. L. Dennison." As it happens, the American Grade Model 1857 watch is in the same collection.

 

[Clint Geller]

Since Ben mentioned the American Grade Model 1857 watch in this thread, I thought I would post some pictures of it, which were taken by the owner, and are being used with his permission.

 

[ben_hutcherson]

Clint,

Thank you for posting those two incredible examples!