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A question about the music box activating, or not.

Opa

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Nov 14, 2021
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I have a Regula 25 which I have cleaned and oiled for a friend. The clock works fine keeping time. The gong sounds when it is supposed to on the hour and half hour. I have not yet replaced the bellows so I will not hear a coo coo noise. That said, the lever which is supposed to activate the dancers and music has not yet activated over about 5 hours of running time. I do not know when all of this last worked properly but she said something about at least 10-12 years. The lever rests just above the lever which releases the music box lock. Does anyone have an idea why it would not be lowering that last 1/8 inch to activate the dancers and music. Currently, the clock is in the case in test mode but the music box is silent and the dancers are still. Hoping for some help with this. I'm on PC right now but should be able to post pictures when I get my cell phone synced with this forum.

I have manually opened the back of the clock and activated the lever by pressing it down. The star wheel turns and the hammer strikes but still no music nor dancers.

Thank you to all of you.

Most Respectfully,


Opa
 

Opa

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Here is one picture of inside of the clock. If I manually push the lever down, parts move but the music box still doesn't engage.

20211113_224430.jpg
 

Keith Doster

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Hi Opa. Considering how much time I've spent adjusting trip wires in the back of cuckoo clocks, I should be able to claim the title of Expert, but that is one of the reasons why these things can be so aggravating. It looks to me, from your photo, that your trip lever is simply out of adjustment. It has either slipped, or been moved on the arbor it is mounted on (which looks like it is held in place with a small screw), or you simply need to bend the trip lever down so it engages the trip wire on the music box. That adjustment has to be precise and could result in mental instability before you hit the sweet spot. Also, it may just be the angle in which you took the photo, but the end of the wire looks like it may be sticking in the slot in the side of the case where the shut off lever is. If so, then that's the main problem.

The only other thing I can think of is the music box is locked up for some inexplicable reason and the weight can't drive it. Can you force the music box to play by pulling on the chain and activating it by hand?
 
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Keith Doster

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One other thing: Be sure the weight on the chain that drives the music box and dancers is mounted correctly. The music box will only turn in one direction. So if the weight is mounted on the wrong side of the pulley and trying to drive the music box backwards . . . well, that won't work.
 

POWERSTROKE

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Jan 11, 2011
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The lever coming off the movment needs to be adjusted downward so that it’s about 1/16” from touching the lever on the music box when it is not in warning
 

Opa

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The lever coming off the movment needs to be adjusted downward so that it’s about 1/16” from touching the lever on the music box when it is not in warning
I have moved it to that point.
 

Opa

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I have checked the items which Keith mentioned and have adjusted the lever down. I've also tried pulling on the chain (after manually tripping the lever) and pulling the chain does activate the music but the lever does not. I begin to suspect that there may be something wrong with the way something in there was assembled. Although I have taken apart and re-assembled one other Regula 25 (without a music box and the trip lever), this one I have only cleaned in the ultrasonic bath and then oiled. Is there a part of the process which I need to pay particular attention to when re-assembling it? Still patiently trying to get it right.
 

Opa

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Hi Opa. Considering how much time I've spent adjusting trip wires in the back of cuckoo clocks, I should be able to claim the title of Expert, but that is one of the reasons why these things can be so aggravating. It looks to me, from your photo, that your trip lever is simply out of adjustment. It has either slipped, or been moved on the arbor it is mounted on (which looks like it is held in place with a small screw), or you simply need to bend the trip lever down so it engages the trip wire on the music box. That adjustment has to be precise and could result in mental instability before you hit the sweet spot. Also, it may just be the angle in which you took the photo, but the end of the wire looks like it may be sticking in the slot in the side of the case where the shut off lever is. If so, then that's the main problem.

The only other thing I can think of is the music box is locked up for some inexplicable reason and the weight can't drive it. Can you force the music box to play by pulling on the chain and activating it by hand?
 

Mike Mall

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Oct 27, 2021
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I've also tried pulling on the chain (after manually tripping the lever) and pulling the chain does activate the music but the lever does not.
Is it that the weight isn't enough to get it going on it's own? And adding a little "pull" gets it started?
If that's the case - the music box is itself binding a little. I've encountered 2 of these doing that same thing. It was a matter of disassembling what I could of the gears, and fly on the little music box itself, clean, and oil.
The movement only activates the music box with the top wire - the other wire holds the fly while the other noise makers are going, so it doesn't start playing music until after the bellows, and strike lever have finished.
Or it could be the dancer's platform and drive chain is binding. Try separating them and see if just tripping the lever gets it going then.
I've had the chain binding intermittently also, until I added some slop/play in it.
 
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JimmyOz

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If you need to add weight (by pulling it) I suspect the governor is shot and it being plastic/nylon I doubt it can be fixed.
 

Vernon

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I agree with Dickstorer in post 5. Look on the left side for a winding key or hole for the music.
 

JimmyOz

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This type of music box was not made for cuckoo clocks, it was made for trinket boxes, when opening the lid it would play the music as a spring loaded lever would release the fan and when closed stop the fan. The winding arbour/key was directly below the spring and the underside of the trinket box. The amount of work it had as a trinket box is not much when you compare it to what a cuckoo clock goes through in just one day. It is not fit for purpose and is most likely a replacement.
 

shutterbug

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I believe JimmyOz is correct. Your music box has no visible power supply, so must be spring powered. Even if you could get the movement to activate it and turn it off again, you'd have to wind it pretty often. Might be OK in a 30 hour clock.
Look through these modern replacement music boxes for a more appropriate option. Understand that you'll probably need to make new holes in the case too.
 

JimmyOz

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The spring will have been taken out already. I have had a few like this to repair in the past and I just fit a whole new music box as there is no room to fit a new governor, which is most likely what is wrong with this one.
 

Opa

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One other thing: Be sure the weight on the chain that drives the music box and dancers is mounted correctly. The music box will only turn in one direction. So if the weight is mounted on the wrong side of the pulley and trying to drive the music box backwards . . . well, that won't work.
I have looked closely and even pulled on the chain and the weight is on correctly. It has 320 gr weights on it.
 

Opa

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No. It can't be that simple. Can it?? :rolleyes:
I have moved that lever and it seems to have two positions. At the up position, the clock runs but nothing else does, no strike and no music. Move it down, and it doesn't even run. I'm really getting frustrated with this.
 

Opa

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I agree with Dickstorer in post 5. Look on the left side for a winding key or hole for the music.
That was the music box which was in it when I picked it up from the owner. Her in-laws brought it to her from Germany. I have a feeling though that it was "used" when they got it for her. I need to ask her if the music ever did work. That music cylinder is really hard to turn but there is not a crank on it.
 

Opa

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The spring will have been taken out already. I have had a few like this to repair in the past and I just fit a whole new music box as there is no room to fit a new governor, which is most likely what is wrong with this one.
Does any company even make music boxes? I found a few on ebay in Holland and those are $90. plus shipping. With clocks being manufactured every day, one would think that music boxes are also being made.
 

RJSoftware

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Is it possible that there is an external chain wheel drive on other side of wood, where key would be on this? It might be possible the spring portion was modified to be an axle. Probably not but dang, so many exceptions. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

If it is a complete bodge they did a good cover up. Looks factory. Maybe your supposed to wind music up 10+ times a day. These are after all, very strange times...

update: now I see the chain drive probably direct to pin drum barrel. The spring on music box is gutted, notice empty spring barrel, no spring. Probably modified drum shaft extended to chain wheel axle, this thing is legit....! See, always a dang exception...!!!!

As to music box not starting stopping, look at plastic pinion that mates with worm gear. See if it has hairline crack.An infamous music box problem.
 
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Vernon

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Studying the music movement, it looks like there is a kind of brake coming off the stop lever to stop the music rather than pin to go into a hole in the wheel. Can't really see the front corner to know if it is connected to the chain wheel. Even so, nothing normal about it.
 

Mike Mall

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Does any company even make music boxes? I found a few on ebay in Holland and those are $90. plus shipping. With clocks being manufactured every day, one would think that music boxes are also being made.
Timesavers has a few
 

Opa

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Nov 14, 2021
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push the cuckoo silence lever all the down it is up in the pic
Thank you for that suggestion. I've carefully checked it several times over several days. All the way up, nothing works at all. Not even the clock itself. I found a spot about 2/3 of the way down but nothing happens there either. I finally moved it all the way to the bottom about a week ago. At the bottom, the clock runs, the strike works and even the lever goes down a bit but what happens there is that it works once. Then, I have to bend the arm again and it works once, then I have to bend the arm again. I've bent the arm down to that point four times and after it works once, it is still again too high to come down and hit it again. There is a set screw up there and I have tightened it and yet it still keeps moving up. Also, I've noticed a small, almost rubber sleeve over a rod in the music box mechanism. One end of it seems to touch the "fan" part (governor?). Would that have anything to do with it? When it does work, it seems that it is still "weak" and I question, should I try a heavier weight for the music box? Currently have three 320 weights on the clock. Is it possible the music box needs heavier?

Yes, this thing is about to drive me nuts!

Right now I'm on my PC but I'll try to get back there and take another picture with my phone and send it here.
 

Vernon

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This may help you understand how it should work normally. However, your setup looks different so there may be some differences.

Vernon
 

Jeff T

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if the activation arm is moving out of adjustment you may have file a flat on its shaft so the srew can ride better there . it has to stay in adjustment. the rubber sleeve srops the music at the end of run not the hole in drum... has to release when activated by lever coming from movement. so drum can turn. the 230 should work if everything right ,
 

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