A new clock in my collection

DieteR

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Hello

Here are some photos of a new member in my collection.

It seems that this clock, and others looking like, are been sold by various manufacturers.

Notice the movement made by Hauck with the low serial number.

Some times ago I bought another clock for a friend of mine with a movement made by Kienzle.

And I have photos showing similar clocks with backplates 1049a and also 1471.



DieteR
DSCI2107.JPG DSCI2108.JPG DSCI2109.JPG DSCI2110.JPG DSCI2111.JPG DSCI2113.JPG DSCI2114.JPG KienzleJPG.JPG
 

etmb61

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Thanks for sharing. I really like seeing the exotic models. I've recorded a few of this model with the winged females for columns (Harpies?), but yours is the only one with a Hauck movement so far.

Nice!

Eric
 

John Hubby

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Dieter, thanks for posting. Definitely movement by Hauck, mid-1903 based on the serial number. This is the second one I have in my data with a Hauck movement; this one has the Gustav Becker style base and the other made early 1905 has a JUF style base.

Eric, the female figure is called a Caryatid, and as Dieter points out this particular model has been documented with movements from other makers including Huber, JUF, and Kienzle. None have yet been found with a Würth movement, and no Gustav Becker movements have been found in any model. I've not done a comprehensive summary about whose movements have been found with the various designs but will do so and post later.

Including the Caryatid, there were at least five different designs including the Acorn, Lotus, Ram, and Swan (Dieter's last photo is of the swan). From my various databases it is evident the production of these clocks started in 1903 at the same time that Hauck and Würth started production. The fact that the Caryatid in particular is found with several different movements in the same time frame my conclusion is that they may have all been made by a third party. We don't know who that is, since there are no identification marks on the case parts that would point us to a particular source. I have not found any advertisements either that would point to a maker. All beautiful clocks but still somewhat of a mystery who made them.
 

etmb61

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Dieter, thanks for posting. Definitely movement by Hauck, mid-1903 based on the serial number. This is the second one I have in my data with a Hauck movement; this one has the Gustav Becker style base and the other made early 1905 has a JUF style base.

Eric, the female figure is called a Caryatid, ...
Hi John,

Technically not a Caryatid as they would have supported the loads on their heads. Caryatids are also female figures, not human/bird hybrids.

The columns do fit the description for a Harpy:
harpy.jpg

The pediment on the clock bears a faint resemblance to the coat of arms of Liechtenstein, witch has a Harpy in the lower right quadrant.
800px-Staatswappen-Liechtensteins.svg.png

Eric
 
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DieteR

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Hello

Thank you for the interest and the comments.

John in Your comment, You say You haven't seen any Würth clocks with such a design.

However, I have photos of such clocks with the board 1049A and the Würth pendulum.

In THE REPAIR GUIDE, I changed the manufacturer of Plate 1049A from JUF to Würth based on John's instructions.

If that is correct, it is probably a Würth clock.

There are even three clocks in my photo collectionthat differ little.
Pay attention to the dials at photo 1 +2, or the hour hand at photo 2 + 3

Photos attached

DieteR

. Foto 01.jpg Foto 02.JPG Foto 03.jpg Foto 04.jpg Foto 05.jpg Foto 06.jpg
 
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John Hubby

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Hi John,

Technically not a Caryatid as they would have supported the loads on their heads. Caryatids are also female figures, not human/bird hybrids.

The columns do fit the description for a Harpy:
View attachment 570036

The pediment on the clock bears a faint resemblance to the coat of arms of Liechtenstein, witch has a Harpy in the lower right quadrant.

Eric
Eric, after no telling how many years I've called these "Caryatids" I have to agree with you they are Harpys. Will now have to go through my databases and make the corrections!!
 

John Hubby

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Hello

Thank you for the interest and the comments.

John in Your comment, You say You haven't seen any Würth clocks with such a design.

However, I have photos of such clocks with the board 1049A and the Würth pendulum.

In THE REPAIR GUIDE, I changed the manufacturer of Plate 1049A from JUF to Würth based on John's instructions. If that is correct, it is probably a Würth clock.

There are even three clocks in my photo collectionthat differ little.
Pay attention to the dials at photo 1 +2, or the hour hand at photo 2 + 3

Photos attached

DieteR
Dieter, it appears my post was not clear. What I should have said is the following, now that I have had an opportunity to review all my databases for makers whose movements are found with these beautiful clocks. My present information shows the following (NOTE this has changed with Eric's added clocks as well as some from my data):
  1. There were five different designs for the movement support posts and crowns for these allegorical cases. They are the Acorn (rare, only one example found to date), Harpy, Lotus, Flower Bud/Seed Pod, Ram, and Swan.
  2. The Harpy design has been documented only with Hauck, Huber, JUF, and Kienzle movements, made between 1903 and 1913. This has not changed.
  3. Two of the other designs have been found only with Würth movements (Acorn and Flower Bud/Seed Pod), the Ram and Swan designs have been found with other maker's movements.
Your clocks with Wurth movements in the photos you posted include one with the Lotus Flower Bud/Seed Pod design and three with the Swan design. The Harpy design clock you posted to start this thread has a Hauck movement.

I have no idea why the Harpy design is found only with Hauck, Huber, JUF and Kienzle, and none of these movements are found in any of the other designs. IF anyone has the Harpy design with a Würth movement really want to see it, same thing if you have any of the other designs with any movement that isn't a Würth want to see those as well.

I still think that all these clocks were assembled by a third party, even though one design is found only with multiple maker's movements and all the others only with Würth movements. I don't think that Würth did these since the Harpy clocks were made in the very same time frame as the others, and to me at least all the designs were made by one fabricator.

EDIT: Text changed as noted above based on new information posted following.
 
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etmb61

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I've never seen an Acorn, but I have seen Wheat!
400 Day Wurth Wheatsheaf

I've also recorded a Kienzle with Swans, no. 107383, and a Huber with Rams, plate 1471.

Eric
 
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KurtinSA

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Thanks, Eric. I guess that explains why the movement and pendulum S/Ns don't match.

I wish I had the eye to tell the various pendulums apart. Beyond seeing a Becker, the rest kinda look the same! :banghead:

Kurt
 

John Hubby

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I've never seen an Acorn, but I have seen Wheat!
400 Day Wurth Wheatsheaf

I've also recorded a Kienzle with Swans, no. 107383, and a Huber with Rams, plate 1471.

Eric
Eric, thanks for the expansion of examples. With this there is little doubt these clocks were most likely assembled by a third party.

I went back to my databases and archives again and found the Kienzle 107383 with Swans and the Huber with Rams. I also found two more Kienzles with Swans, no's 100505 and 111096, as well as one with Rams no. 108518. No idea why these didnt come up in my earlier search. I didn't find anything new in the Hauck or JUF data.

With regard to the "Wheatsheaf" design, I took a hard look at a couple of those clocks and now am convinced the post sculpture is not a representation of a head of wheat, but that of some flower bud or seed pod. I've looked at lotus, camellia, and magnolia that I already knew have a very similar bud shape, but none of the buds have leaves surrounding the bud as they have not come out yet when the buds appear. However, I found a photo of a magnolia seed pod that is strikingly similar to the design of the post sculpture. Here is a photo:

Magnolia seedhead.jpeg When the remaining flower petal parts (black) drop off it leaves a pod with virtually the same design as the sculpture on the clock, complete with leaves surrounding it. There may be other flowering shrubs or trees that have something like this either as a flower bud or seed pod, will appreciate any additional suggestions but this looks like the actual sculpture model.

With this, I'll list what I've found to date for each of the five designs, showing the makers found so far with each design:
Acorn: Würth
Flower Bud or Seedpod: Würth
Harpy: Hauck, Huber, JUF, Kienzle, Würth
Ram: Huber, Kienzle, Würth
Swan: Kienzle, Würth

I expect we will find more examples to further expand this list.

Magnolia seedhead.jpeg
 

John Hubby

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John,

Do you have a photo of the Acorn design?

Eric
Unfortunately not. I documented that clock, serial number 1041, at a St. Louis Regional well before the days of cellphone cameras so no photos. Definitely an Acorn design with oak leaves in the pediment and behind the acorn. Also it's the only one I've seen so I don't have anything more than the description I wrote on a pocket notebook that I used to carry.
 

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