A few Dial Clocks to share

[Ralph]

With the surge of interest in dial clocks of late, I thought I would share a few unusual dial clocks, some acquired the last year or two. The first is C J Kirby and had an interesting drop, so I bought it last year at the Eastern States Regional in Syracuse. I doubt the hands are correct.



The second is unsigned, but has a great look an is fairly early. I like the chisel bottom. It was picked up a couple of years ago at Mid Atlantic Regional in York.



Here's a third, a late Saltbox. Thomas Fitz, Sarum (Salisbury)





Ralph

 

[Kevin W.]

Very nice finds Ralph, you did well.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I would definitely go for the Sarum one. Salisbury is just about 30 miles away or so, and I used to visit old Sarum for work as there is an Industrial Estate there. I was last there when we went to see the final flight of the last flying Vulcan bomber as she went on a final tour of the country.

I am enjoying building a collection of dial clocks, I may just be making things more complicated for my executors but what the hell.

I may have looked this up for you before, however

Thomas Fitz, 1768-1842

He was apprenticed to Francis Shuttleworth in about 1780 and listed as a watchmaker in a 1793 trade directory. A marriage licence application in 1791 described him as a watchmaker and batchelor, aged 25 of New Sarum and his intended wife Charlotte Carpenter a spinster aged 24 of Sarum st Thomas. They married at St Edmunds church on 21st October 1792. Charlotte was the daughter of William & Sarah Carpenter and had been baptised at the Salt Lane Presbyterian chapel on 6th May 1770.

Fitz succeeded Francis his Master in Blue Boar Row an advert placed in the Salisbury Journal 16th July 1792 describes the transfer.There are several further adverts and details of Thomas' life and family in Vol 3 of John Youngs books Wiltshire watch and clockmakers. His business was taken over in Blue Boar row in 1837 by George Leach, ayear later his wife died and after that Thomas moved to Romsey in Hampshire. he died and was buried in Romsey in March 1842.

A number of clocks are known, one bracket and several longcase. No dial clock is recorded, you may have the only one still in existence.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Blue Boar Row is still there, relatively short but quite large, even this old pic must be significantly different to how it looked then.

 

[new2clocks]

We have a tread dedicated to dial clocks:

DIAL CLOCKS- post them here for reference

Regards.

 

[Ralph]

I would definitely go for the Sarum one. Salisbury is just about 30 miles away or so, and I used to visit old Sarum for work as there is an Industrial Estate there. I was last there when we went to see the final flight of the last flying Vulcan bomber as she went on a final tour of the country.

I am enjoying building a collection of dial clocks, I may just be making things more complicated for my executors but what the hell.

I may have looked this up for you before, however

Thomas Fitz, 1768-1842

<snip>

I don't recall, regardless, it is saved this time.... Thank you for your input.

Ralph

 

[Chris Radano]

Dial clocks (and since Ralph is including drop dials) should be plentiful and accessible to anyone who is interested. Examples from the Regency period and older will be more desirable, harder to find, and more expensive.
Since I've been hoarding clocks like toilet paper, here are some more recent finds:
Old English convex dial clock

Railway fusee drop dial.

Here is a Welsh one never before seen on the message board. John Griffiths Bethesda c. 1850-56. This clock is in very good, unrestored condition. It was missing the pendulum, but I found a replacement years ago on Ebay UK. Now the same pendulum is harder to find. I've had this clock for years, and never touched it. It will remain one the bench, since I took it off the wall all 3 dial screws became loose due to age enlarged holes in the dial surround. All 3 of these clocks in this posting were inexpensive, are are examples of what can be found.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I'll share one that got away. I was the underbidder on this at auction on 23 march. I am sure it is a conversion from a cartel clock but a pretty old one. Is the bezel perhaps from the original cartel? The nice thing about this conversion is that the dial had not been drilled to mount it.

The saltbox case is not usual construction, but as I say it is old.

I spoke to the chap as his listing appeared dishonest but turns out he knew the family and the original collector. When they were selling off the estate he was offered all the collection but advised them to sell at auction to get a better price and he would buy what he wanted at auction.

I'm sure he must regret this one as he must have made a small loss on it, may have been better to leave it with me, but I share it here because you won't see many cartel clocks on this board. There are far more pics than when I saw it at auction. English cartel clocks were in giltwood cases, the movements held in by straps to the backplate (note redundant holes on the one) the dial held in place by the movement.

This dial has the typical inner ring inside the roman numerals, and the mock pendulum which I would love on a dial clock.

I'm glad it has found a new home, sadly not with me, it is a very nice clock even in this form.

Rare Antique English 18thC Single Fusee Verge Escapement Dial Wall Station Clock | eBay

 

[jmclaugh]

Always good to see some dial clocks.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Always good to see some dial clocks.

Obviously as a longcase clock collector I don't have many dial clocks

These are the ones currently up, there are five more.

 

[jmclaugh]

Nick, now I see about the coving, sets them off nicely. Before I got some of those I'd need to send my better half over for some, err therapy?

 

[novicetimekeeper]

None of them run, though all the ones shown in the pics have been restored. They tick too fast for my partner and three of them are verge so they are too loud anyway. We now have as many dial clocks as longcase clocks. Only three clocks are running, and only one strikes, but that also has a passing strike on the half hour. (I sneaked that in but also that one has a really quiet tick)

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Obviously as a longcase clock collector I don't have many dial clocks

These are the ones currently up, there are five more.

View attachment 580597 View attachment 580598 View attachment 580599 View attachment 580601 View attachment 580603 View attachment 580604 View attachment 580606 View attachment 580607

Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to use spaces above doors. Here's the situation...just as it is in my entry hall never mind the rest of the place:



Well, I guess there's always room for 1 more? Gee, gotta fix the the cowl on the light fixture.

RM

 

[novicetimekeeper]

space above doors is ideal for dial clocks, though I am running out of doors. I prefer to keep the clocks distanced out but that may have to change.

 

[Chris Radano]

Here is the movement of John Griffiths above. Looks like it's a half deadbeat escapement. A nice Victorian era, early industrial age machine.

 

[daveR]

Obviously as a longcase clock collector I don't have many dial clocks

You may not have many, but what you have are some very nice ones. I only have 5 and they are later than yours and one of these is awaiting major restoration (case, movement and dial)
On a different tack, the one I have had the longest - and which was also my first foray into clock collecting 25 or more years ago, has a very quiet tick end even now as I type it is only a metre away from me and It is almost silent!

David

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Thanks, I thought the Duterrau had a very quiet tick, but apparently not. The verge ones definitely are not quiet. My partner has much better hearing than me and is also super sensitive to sensory overload, so now only the three longcase with the quiet ticks continue. He admires the collect for the style are workmanship, the noise not so much. I could never have them all run anyway. They successfully cover the range of styles of dial clocks that interest me, would still like another earlier one but with a mock pendulum, one day perhaps.

 

[Ralph]

Here's one for Bob and his affinity for paper mache. The dial is signed Askew, Dublin. There was a John Askew working 1858 or so.

I know these do not fit above doors so well.

Ralph

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Not above doors in small bungalows, but I am sure there are other houses where they do. How easy is it to repair papier mache cases? I know it was used for all sorts of household items, and it really sets off the mother of pearl.

The hands are really fine too.

 

[Ralph]

Nick, I do have the little chunk missing on the top left. I just haven't got around to cementing it back in.

Ralph

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Nick, I do have the little chunk missing on the top left. I just haven't got around to cementing it back in.

Ralph

Good, well most of us have a bit of spare time now

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Here's one for Bob and his affinity for paper mache. The dial is signed Askew, Dublin. There was a John Askew working 1858 or so.

I know these do not fit above doors so well.

Ralph

View attachment 581326

Lovely clock!

Here's 2 American papier mache "gallery" clocks both by the Litchfield Mfg. Co. Rather rare form for an American clock of this style:



The larger one is a rather rare size. It has a less commonly seen time and strike version of the LMC's marine movement with a Sully type of escapement. Here's a better pic:



No, that one ain't fitting over most doors, either.

The smaller one on it's right has the more typically found time only movement:



Both of these clocks are discussed in more depth in the "Marine" clock thread.

LMC employed immigrant English papier mache makers so a definite connection with English papier mache objects and clocks.

How about a papier mache chair in which to sit and look at your clock?



Sorry for the overall hijack!

RM

 

[novicetimekeeper]

How about a papier mache chair in which to sit and look at your clock?

View attachment 581422

Sorry for the overall hijack!

RM

Is that like gesso on a wooden frame or all papier mache? Wasn't the Trabant car body something similar?

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Is that like gesso on a wooden frame or all papier mache? Wasn't the Trabant car body something similar?

I'm not sure about the chair.



Apparently the "Trabi" body was made from recycled cotton fiber (Breshnev's and Krushchev's old bloomers?) and phenolic resins rather than paper. It was called "Duroplast".

RM.

 

[Ralph]

Bob, you do have the prettiest American clocks. ... and a lot of them.

Here's another one squirreled away. I like the short drop.

Ralph

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Bob, you do have the prettiest American clocks. ... and a lot of them.

Here's another one squirreled away. I like the short drop.

Ralph

View attachment 581439 View attachment 581440

Thanks for your kind comment!

Thems is some pretty ones, too!

RM

 

[DeanT]

space above doors is ideal for dial clocks, though I am running out of doors. I prefer to keep the clocks distanced out but that may have to change.

What is the social distance for dial clocks BTW?

 

[daveR]

How far away from each other do they have to be before one pendulum doesnt infect the rate of another and cause it to set up a harmonic swinging?
D

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Dial clocks are literally starting to pile up here, with Peters Pitt of Frome on top of the Dwerrihouse & Ogston, None of the dial clocks in the house are running so sympathetic vibration is not an issue, we will have to pput one up in the toilet and a second one up in the kitchen. The Dwerrihouse doesn't need a door as it is too tall with the arched back box. I don't have movement or dial for that and the pegs need replacing.

Things are grinding to a halt as I can't get cases to the cabinet maker though he could do with the work. I can't even get dials to the dial painter though she is still working too, as is the chap who does the movements.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

What is the social distance for dial clocks BTW?

I think it's still okay for clocks to meet "face to face". It's not okay for those who collect them

How far away from each other do they have to be before one pendulum doesnt infect the rate of another and cause it to set up a harmonic swinging?
D

Tongue in cheek, yes? I have a lot of closely spaced clocks. No evidence of transmission. Good hand washing? Also, most of my clocks are staid Yankees. No harmonic "swinging" with each other...or at least that is admitted to.

RM​

 

[Uhralt]

Good hand washing?

Don't you use hand sanitizer on the clock hands? I thought that's standard.

Uhralt

 

[Micam100]

Hi Ralph, re your papier mache clock in post #18, the hands appear to be identical to those on my dial clock. Do you feel yours are original to your clock? This is the first time I've seen them on another clock.
English fusee? age and bent brass.

 

[Ralph]

Hi Ralph, re your papier mache clock in post #18, the hands appear to be identical to those on my dial clock. Do you feel yours are original to your clock? This is the first time I've seen them on another clock.
English fusee? age and bent brass.

I never questioned them. I have seen the pattern on other clocks in the past.

Ralph

 

[Micam100]

I never questioned them. I have seen the pattern on other clocks in the past.

Ralph

Thanks Ralph, that's good to hear.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Hi Ralph, re your papier mache clock in post #18, the hands appear to be identical to those on my dial clock. Do you feel yours are original to your clock? This is the first time I've seen them on another clock.
English fusee? age and bent brass.

View attachment 582701

That's a rather nifty looking clock.

Is the fly on the dial real or painted on?

I ask because in one on of my books, I believe one about English tall case clocks, there is a picture of where a defect in the dial was whimsically hidden by a painted fly!

Your clock sort of reminds me a bit of this one:



It's smaller. The front of the case is cast iron decorated with paint and inlaid with MOP. It was made by the Forestville Hardware and Clock Co. That's one of J.C. Brown's "bankruptcy" firms. Much more about that in Roberts' monographs on J.C. Brown and Forestville clock makers.

RM

 

[Micam100]

Hello RM, a painted fly would be great but yep that's a real one. He is a family pet. His name is Louie. I see the resemblance with your clock - that would have caught my eye if I'd come across it casually. Is that an unusual form...the cast iron? My clock is mahogany and the carved elements are individual pieces - twelve of them of course - that are pinned and glued to the main body. You may have noticed that the dial has had the Nikko pen treatment to the numbers and worse still the signature has been removed along with the patch of paint under it. I've made a few minor repairs to the movement and it runs well and keeps very good time.
Michael

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Hello RM, a painted fly would be great but yep that's a real one. He is a family pet. His name is Louie. I see the resemblance with your clock - that would have caught my eye if I'd come across it casually. Is that an unusual form...the cast iron? My clock is mahogany and the carved elements are individual pieces - twelve of them of course - that are pinned and glued to the main body. You may have noticed that the dial has had the Nikko pen treatment to the numbers and worse still the signature has been removed along with the patch of paint under it. I've made a few minor repairs to the movement and it runs well and keeps very good time.
Michael

Yes, a cast iron cased wall clock is a bit unusual, especially this form and especially that maker.

Yes, the dial of your clock has been subject to a very unfortunate "restoration". Don't understand how someone might think it's preferable to faded numerals??

Poor Louie! I understand he was the little green frog's lunch??

RM.

 

[Ralph]

RM, I worked on one of those SBT iron clocks 30+ years ago. I sometimes wonder what happened to it... where is it now?

Here's another small dial clock. It has an 8" dial and has Maple & Co. on the dial. The case is mahogany and has dovetailing. It's later, but the size and construction is nice.



Ralph

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I like 8" dial clocks. Mostly they are quite late ones but I have seen and missed a couple of 8" convex dial ones so they are out there. I hope to get one at some stage.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Did I really only have 8 dial clocks when this thread started?

 

[Philip Snowden]

Dial clocks are literally starting to pile up here, with Peters Pitt of Frome on top of the Dwerrihouse & Ogston, None of the dial clocks in the house are running so sympathetic vibration is not an issue, we will have to pput one up in the toilet and a second one up in the kitchen. The Dwerrihouse doesn't need a door as it is too tall with the arched back box. I don't have movement or dial for that and the pegs need replacing.

Things are grinding to a halt as I can't get cases to the cabinet maker though he could do with the work. I can't even get dials to the dial painter though she is still working too, as is the chap who does the movements.

With the surge of interest in dial clocks of late, I thought I would share a few unusual dial clocks, some acquired the last year or two. The first is C J Kirby and had an interesting drop, so I bought it last year at the Eastern States Regional in Syracuse. I doubt the hands are correct.

View attachment 580515

The second is unsigned, but has a great look an is fairly early. I like the chisel bottom. It was picked up a couple of years ago at Mid Atlantic Regional in York.

View attachment 580516

Here's a third, a late Saltbox. Thomas Fitz, Sarum (Salisbury)





Ralph View attachment 580517

Absolutely love my Dial clocks this is one corner of our small cottage lounge .Can’t resist them .

 

[Philip Snowden]

Hi Ralph, re your papier mache clock in post #18, the hands appear to be identical to those on my dial clock. Do you feel yours are original to your clock? This is the first time I've seen them on another clock.
English fusee? age and bent brass.

View attachment 582701

I have a Dial clock with an alarm in a rosewood case with identical hands .

 

[Philip Snowden]

Here's one for Bob and his affinity for paper mache. The dial is signed Askew, Dublin. There was a John Askew working 1858 or so.

I know these do not fit above doors so well.

Ralph

View attachment 581326

Here’s another but but some of the gilt has gone but it has a nicely shaped movement and a really quiet tick.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I still want a passing strike, and would like a mock pendulum. Always on the lookout for local signatures and wooden dials too,

 

[Philip Snowden]

I still want a passing strike, and would like a mock pendulum. Always on the lookout for local signatures and wooden dials too,

Hi Nick .I have a passing strike in an Ebonised case it has a screwed top quality movement and strikes once on the hour and again a minute later bought it off Jeff Darken about 30 years ago.think it has two hammers .

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Thought these might be of interest. They're American wall clocks which seem to copy their UK counterparts.

The first 4 are Jerome products of the mid-19th century. I do apologize for the pix. Quickly taken in situ with some a bit tough to reach based upon where they are or until I unpack my inventory from this past weekend's antique show (too hot, too busy).

Here's a time and strike with integral fusees:



Here's the movement (from the front and back):



Here's another, but a fusee timepiece version of the above clock:



Here's another fusee timepiece:



And yet another:



I have previously posted all but the first example on my American Fusee thread with more info, pix of the movements, etc.

See this mid-19th century circular by Jerome which is believed to be the first published catalog by an American clock maker:


Ironically, these and other Jerome products were imported to the UK!

Finally, will end with a rather large sized Kroeber which reminds me of some the mid to late 19th century "dial" clocks I have seen:



Called the Maltese. Does NOT have a fusee. Standard brass spring driven movement.

RM

 

[Micam100]

I have a Dial clock with an alarm in a rosewood case with identical hands .

That's interesting. I've never seen one of those. How do you set the alarm time?

Michael

 

[Philip Snowden]

That's interesting. I've never seen one of those. How do you set the alarm time?

Michael

Michael ,Just move the alarm hand to the time wanted and pull a chord down to the left of the clock and it’s set.The chord has rotted so can’t be seen ,it doesn’t ring for long probably so as not to wake the rest of the house .

 

[Philip Snowden]

RM, I worked on one of those SBT iron clocks 30+ years ago. I sometimes wonder what happened to it... where is it now?

Here's another small dial clock. It has an 8" dial and has Maple & Co. on the dial. The case is mahogany and has dovetailing. It's later, but the size and construction is nice.

View attachment 584331 View attachment 584332 View attachment 584333

Ralph

That’s strange Ralph I have a 10 and 12 inch Maple with the same square movement .This is an 8 inch rail clock which was made by Walker for the G N R in the 1860 s .Then Potts of Leeds took the contract over later they repainted the dials. In the pictures can be seen the Potts rubbed writing under LNER W.POTTS AND SONS then below that GNR then under the number at the bottom LEEDS then below that the original clock number 543 . These numbers are traceable and this clock spent most of its life in this signal box just south of Doncaster on the London and North Eastern Railway .And did I love train spotting when a boy !!

 

[Philip Snowden]

Thought these might be of interest. They're American wall clocks which seem to copy their UK counterparts.

The first 4 are Jerome products of the mid-19th century. I do apologize for the pix. Quickly taken in situ with some a bit tough to reach based upon where they are or until I unpack my inventory from this past weekend's antique show (too hot, too busy).

Here's a time and strike with integral fusees:

View attachment 715098

Here's the movement (from the front and back):

View attachment 715099 View attachment 715100

Here's another, but a fusee timepiece version of the above clock:

View attachment 715102

Here's another fusee timepiece:

View attachment 715101

And yet another:

View attachment 715103

I have previously posted all but the first example on my American Fusee thread with more info, pix of the movements, etc.

See this mid-19th century circular by Jerome which is believed to be the first published catalog by an American clock maker:

View attachment 715104
Ironically, these and other Jerome products were imported to the UK!

Finally, will end with a rather large sized Kroeber which reminds me of some the mid to late 19th century "dial" clocks I have seen:

View attachment 715105

Called the Maltese. Does NOT have a fusee. Standard brass spring driven movement.

RM

Seen a few American Dial clocks over the years which mostly had beautifully decorated cases like Tonbridge Ware . I think clock makers bought the movements in and the cases also and put them together and put their names on them .Like your American fusees and this Maltese case looks top quality .