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Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dano4734, Oct 31, 2019.
Just picked this up, runs good looks pretty good to me but you guys know a lot more. Needs cleaning
Please consider posting more pictures,
in good focus... It could help to remove
your movement from the case.
Hey Dano! Cool find.
Prompted by the earliest 57 thread earlier this week, I found this article by Ron Price and it was a great read.
Origins of the Waltham Model 57 - evolution
Very nice Ellery!!
Little better photos thank you guys
You have a Civil War Era Waltham - Ellery Grade. Case has an odd trade mark but could be period correct - potentially Swiss made case. Has a very English/scottish symbol on the outside of the case (circular belt) which you would expect to see on an English made watch or at least made for an Englishman/Scottsman. Those were engraved later though. Interesting for sure. Can't see other screw marks on the case so that is good.
Missing one screw for a pillar but easy fix.
Is there a stamped Eagle symbol on the case anywhere? A lot of civil war era cases have this, some say it should have it.
Hi, I still can't tell the serial number. Could you just state that. And how is the case marked inside? Thanks
Hi Clint it’s 74132 inside case reads American watch 1147
Thanks, Dano. "American Watch" or "American Watch Co"? If the former, it may well be a foreign made case, as Nigel suggested.
American watch I also think it was a foreign made case and also believe it’s original to the watch
Yes, it could be original. It looks right for the period, it satisfies all of the functional requirements of a Model 1857 case, and it shows no signs that any other movement ever was in it.
Luv it boss, Keith...............my 11J Bartlett from 63 is 72xxx.
PS... Yes, European case.
Watch is 100% correct
This is a very scarce hallmark, others I have had with same hallmark (including a 59) are not so English in appearance. I strongly believe these cases are NOT foreign.
Any idea who that maker's mark belongs to, Bryan? It seemed to me like an inaccurate counterfeit of a Waltham trademark, like those often seen on Swiss-made watch movements of the period. I've seen a few of these cases, so I don't know how "rare" they would be. Whether the case is foreign or not, we agree that it is "correct."
I just realized mine is just a couple of months off the watch given to Lincoln after the Gettysburg address. His is 67613 made in January mine was made in April
great example of a Lincoln Waltham
In tribute, upon the Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln was presented with a William Ellery, key wind watch Waltham Model 1857, serial number 67613. This watch is now in the collection of the National Museum of American History at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC.
If I recall correctly, this information is incorrect despite it being reproduced in various publications. The Lincoln watch in the Smithsonian collection is an English 18K gold watch (Abraham Lincoln's Watch, around 1858).
Lincoln's Ellery watch was sold at auction out of Oliver R. Barrett's vast Lincoln collection in 1952, and the location is unknown.
Lincoln's English watch is pictured in my book, and it is indeed in the Smithsonian collection.
Clint - During your research, did you ever uncover the current location of Lincoln's Ellery watch?
No, Nathan. I did not. However, I never went looking for it, as Lincoln was not the central focus of my research. I was more focused on the kinds of Civil War provenance watches that an ordinary collector might aspire to own someday. So that is not to say, then, that the location of Lincoln's Ellery watch could not be found. Here is about all that is known:
Abraham Lincoln's Waltham Watch
Lincoln likely owned more than two watches in his life, but whether any of the others still exist today and can be identified to him is another story.
Good grief when did these civil war Waltham’s get so expensive ? I never paid more than a couple hundred but on line people asking over 1000. Nuts .. are there more collectors?
We can't discuss values here. However, I can point out while a seller can ask any price he wants, that doesn't mean anyone will pay it. That said, I am not the only collector who has a special interest in American watches that might have seen service in the Civil War.
Exactly it is only valuable if someone wants them that bad. Ahh I will pass