A Decent 1863 Waltham

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dano4734, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Just picked this up, runs good looks pretty good to me but you guys know a lot more. Needs cleaning

    41CC57DE-90B2-4A5A-9C9F-AEC6CF57CBC7.jpeg DCA7D643-A6D2-49FF-8DC6-84C1AB255FCF.jpeg 99B804B3-77BC-4D5F-95BE-77CAA26E5B70.jpeg
     
    pmwas, Kevin W., Keith R... and 3 others like this.
  2. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    1,741
    73
    48
    Male
    Retired
    La Crosse, Wisconsin's West Coast
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  3. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
    NAWCC Member Donor Sponsor

    Oct 25, 2018
    1,045
    1,264
    113
    Male
    Plumber
    Pittsburgh pa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  4. miguel angel cladera

    miguel angel cladera Registered User

    Jul 29, 2019
    65
    74
    18
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Very nice Ellery!!
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  5. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 2, 2016
    639
    305
    63
    Male
    Artist
    Oak island North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Nice purchase!
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  6. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 2, 2016
    639
    305
    63
    Male
    Artist
    Oak island North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Nice purchase!
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  7. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Little better photos thank you guys

    B47335CB-76C6-4E3A-A23F-856B71F5C53C.jpeg E807A38F-B5A6-40B6-9FE4-CD57DEA5000E.jpeg 760D9741-6898-4376-9C6D-8DE9AC481909.jpeg 1CD800A6-4607-421C-B6FE-2C923AD823C9.jpeg
     
    GeneJockey, Keith R... and musicguy like this.
  8. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

    Oct 30, 2005
    771
    95
    28
    Male
    Brisbane, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You have a Civil War Era Waltham - Ellery Grade. Case has an odd trade mark but could be period correct - potentially Swiss made case. Has a very English/scottish symbol on the outside of the case (circular belt) which you would expect to see on an English made watch or at least made for an Englishman/Scottsman. Those were engraved later though. Interesting for sure. Can't see other screw marks on the case so that is good.

    Missing one screw for a pillar but easy fix.

    Is there a stamped Eagle symbol on the case anywhere? A lot of civil war era cases have this, some say it should have it.
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  9. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #9 Clint Geller, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2019
    Hi, I still can't tell the serial number. Could you just state that. And how is the case marked inside? Thanks
     
  10. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Hi Clint it’s 74132 inside case reads American watch 1147
     
  11. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, Dano. "American Watch" or "American Watch Co"? If the former, it may well be a foreign made case, as Nigel suggested.
     
  12. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    American watch I also think it was a foreign made case and also believe it’s original to the watch
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  13. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, it could be original. It looks right for the period, it satisfies all of the functional requirements of a Model 1857 case, and it shows no signs that any other movement ever was in it.
     
    Keith R... and Dano4734 like this.
  14. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    5,419
    1,792
    113
    Male
    Retired Sr. Proj. mgr,
    South
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Luv it boss, Keith...............my 11J Bartlett from 63 is 72xxx.

    PS... Yes, European case.

    Keith R...
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  15. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    1,698
    135
    63
    Male
    Director of Manufacturing, Aerospace
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Watch is 100% correct

    This is a very scarce hallmark, others I have had with same hallmark (including a 59) are not so English in appearance. I strongly believe these cases are NOT foreign.

    Congratulations
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  16. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #16 Clint Geller, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Any idea who that maker's mark belongs to, Bryan? It seemed to me like an inaccurate counterfeit of a Waltham trademark, like those often seen on Swiss-made watch movements of the period. I've seen a few of these cases, so I don't know how "rare" they would be. Whether the case is foreign or not, we agree that it is "correct."
     
  17. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    #17 Dano4734, Nov 2, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
    I just realized mine is just a couple of months off the watch given to Lincoln after the Gettysburg address. His is 67613 made in January mine was made in April

    great example of a Lincoln Waltham

    In tribute, upon the Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln was presented with a William Ellery, key wind watch Waltham Model 1857, serial number 67613. This watch is now in the collection of the National Museum of American History at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC.[2][3][4]
     
    Keith R..., Jskirk and musicguy like this.
  18. Nathan Moore

    Nathan Moore Registered User
    NAWCC Business

    Dec 29, 2011
    320
    309
    63
    Country Flag:
    If I recall correctly, this information is incorrect despite it being reproduced in various publications. The Lincoln watch in the Smithsonian collection is an English 18K gold watch (Abraham Lincoln's Watch, around 1858).

    Lincoln's Ellery watch was sold at auction out of Oliver R. Barrett's vast Lincoln collection in 1952, and the location is unknown.
     
    Dano4734 and Clint Geller like this.
  19. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Lincoln's English watch is pictured in my book, and it is indeed in the Smithsonian collection.
     
    Dano4734 likes this.
  20. Nathan Moore

    Nathan Moore Registered User
    NAWCC Business

    Dec 29, 2011
    320
    309
    63
    Country Flag:
    Clint - During your research, did you ever uncover the current location of Lincoln's Ellery watch?
     
  21. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #21 Clint Geller, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    No, Nathan. I did not. However, I never went looking for it, as Lincoln was not the central focus of my research. I was more focused on the kinds of Civil War provenance watches that an ordinary collector might aspire to own someday. So that is not to say, then, that the location of Lincoln's Ellery watch could not be found. Here is about all that is known:

    Abraham Lincoln's Waltham Watch

    Lincoln likely owned more than two watches in his life, but whether any of the others still exist today and can be identified to him is another story.
     
  22. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Good grief when did these civil war Waltham’s get so expensive ? I never paid more than a couple hundred but on line people asking over 1000. Nuts .. are there more collectors?
     
  23. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Jul 12, 2002
    1,508
    427
    83
    Male
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #23 Clint Geller, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    We can't discuss values here. However, I can point out while a seller can ask any price he wants, that doesn't mean anyone will pay it. That said, I am not the only collector who has a special interest in American watches that might have seen service in the Civil War.
     
  24. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Exactly it is only valuable if someone wants them that bad. Ahh I will pass
     

Share This Page