8 Day George Marsh & Co.

[Sooth]

Hi group, it's been a while since I posted to the actual website message board. I thought I had posted this here, but evidently not.

I purchased three rare 8 day wooden works clocks from auction several months back and one in particular has me scratching my head. Not because of anything relating to the maker, but with regards to the case style.

As you can see from the images it's a fairly standard looking "triple decker" clock with a carved crest, however it has a really skinny centre glass. I thought I had many images of this style clock, and I did not think it was anything special, but now that I'm researching it, I have trawled through probably about 20,000+ images in my archives and I found only ONE other clock with a narrow centre glass like this (from any maker).

I'm curious if any members here have any others.

Side note: Plans for this are to stabilize/patch the crumbling gilded columns, and replace the missing glasses. Everything else is in rather good shape aside from loose bits to reglue and small veneer patches to install. The movement will need a bit of attention but is in fair condition. It is indeed 8 day and ivory bushed. Weights if anyone is curious are about 12Lbs each!

 

[Kevin W.]

Very nice Jean. You did well. I love the wooden works clocks.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Hi group, it's been a while since I posted to the actual website message board. I thought I had posted this here, but evidently not.

I purchased three rare 8 day wooden works clocks from auction several months back and one in particular has me scratching my head. Not because of anything relating to the maker, but with regards to the case style.

As you can see from the images it's a fairly standard looking "triple decker" clock with a carved crest, however it has a really skinny centre glass. I thought I had many images of this style clock, and I did not think it was anything special, but now that I'm researching it, I have trawled through probably about 20,000+ images in my archives and I found only ONE other clock with a narrow centre glass like this (from any maker).

I'm curious if any members here have any others.

Side note: Plans for this are to stabilize/patch the crumbling gilded columns, and replace the missing glasses. Everything else is in rather good shape aside from loose bits to reglue and small veneer patches to install. The movement will need a bit of attention but is in fair condition. It is indeed 8 day and ivory bushed. Weights if anyone is curious are about 12Lbs each!

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Bonjour! Comment ca va?

Great clock!!

I have a somewhat similar 8 day ww in a triple decker which, as per the label, was made by Atkins and Downs by George Mitchell. Here's a link to that thread:

Atkins&Downs for George Mitchell 8 day WW | NAWCC Forums

The smaller center section and larger lower door of your clock's case is definitely different as far as my experience goes!

Love the dial and that the faux tortoise shell decoration on the columns hasn't been modified or improved.

I took a quick look around NAWCC Bulletin Supplement # 19, by Rogers and Taylor about 8 day ww clocks:

bryan_rogers_snowden_taylor_web.pdf (nawcc.org)

Couldn't find anything like it in Lee Davis' Supplement # 18 about the Greek Revival influence on American manufactured clocks.

Nice find!

Please let us see the finished product.

RM

 

[Sooth]

Attached are 3 images of the only other example I've found. It almost looks identical aside from the crest. I do find that the narrow centre glass gives the overall clock more pleasing proportions than the more common ones with a rectangular door and taller centre mirror. As a side note, both doors are square and almost interchangeable.

I had been hoping for more examples in order to see if the glass had a pendulum bob opening. The length of the bob looks like it will land near the top of the door, so I don't know if they simply would have gone without an opening.

I imagine it had a fairly standard stenciled border tablet with a scene in the centre.

 

[Sooth]

I should also note that I flipped through every single antique clock book I own for other pissible leads. What annoys me is that I was so sure that I had seen more like it. I might be thinking of some of the minis? They tend to have slightly narrower middle glasses, but not quite the same look.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Attached are 3 images of the only other example I've found. It almost looks identical aside from the crest. I do find that the narrow centre glass gives the overall clock more pleasing proportions than the more common ones with a rectangular door and taller centre mirror. As a side note, both doors are square and almost interchangeable.

I had been hoping for more examples in order to see if the glass had a pendulum bob opening. The length of the bob looks like it will land near the top of the door, so I don't know if they simply would have gone without an opening.

I imagine it had a fairly standard stenciled border tablet with a scene in the centre.

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Good work!

RM

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

I meant to comment about the bob position. Don't know how far up it is on your clock.

However, sometimes the pendulum oculus is placed far up. Here is a Terry fully carved case ww. Yes, it's a 30 HOUR, but I think the point is still valid. Even with the badly flaked glass, you can still see where the oculus is placed higher up than usual in the door:



By the way, how's that for crusty and as found? 1/4 columns no less.

Have owned if for years now. Never got to doing anything with it. Doesn't bother me. What does is where did the piece of veneer on the cross piece of the door go? It was once there!

RM.

 

[Sooth]

No worse than the remains of either of these, and I have ZERO plans to replace them or touch them up. Still lots of original details left.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Found another. With extra holes in dial, wonder if original movement.




RM

 

[Sooth]

Nice find. Thanks! Sadly it doesn't provide any added information as far as tablet ideas/layout. It's interesting that this one also has an eagle spalt. I would think that it might have been converted to a brass movement as the holes are much closer to the centre. The original holes appear to be the ones near the centre dial ring (as they match the locations on the other original dials).

You had asked about the pendulum length/height. Based on the damaged/replaced suspension rod that came with the clock (and keeping in mind that the clock has not been repaired/run/tested yet), it looks as though the bob would end up behind the top cross-piece of the lower door. If I hang the bob in the case with the parts supplied it's actually partly behind the lower wooden cross-piece, which honestly doesn't really make sense as it's in a horrible spot (you can see the suspension spring and hook fairly clearly in the first 4 photos). It's possible that this is the wrong suspension rod. If the rod is only slightly off, I'd still expect it to be within the top 1/4 of the lower door.

It's kind of neat to see that all similar clocks found so far have the same treatment to the columns. I have images of this other George Marsh with similar columns. It is also an 8 day wooden works, and appears to have a similar pendulum length.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Nice find. Thanks! Sadly it doesn't provide any added information as far as tablet ideas/layout. It's interesting that this one also has an eagle spalt. I would think that it might have been converted to a brass movement as the holes are much closer to the centre. The original holes appear to be the ones near the centre dial ring (as they match the locations on the other original dials).

You had asked about the pendulum length/height. Based on the damaged/replaced suspension rod that came with the clock (and keeping in mind that the clock has not been repaired/run/tested yet), it looks as though the bob would end up behind the top cross-piece of the lower door. If I hang the bob in the case with the parts supplied it's actually partly behind the lower wooden cross-piece, which honestly doesn't really make sense as it's in a horrible spot (you can see the suspension spring and hook fairly clearly in the first 4 photos). It's possible that this is the wrong suspension rod. If the rod is only slightly off, I'd still expect it to be within the top 1/4 of the lower door.

It's kind of neat to see that all similar clocks found so far have the same treatment to the columns. I have images of this other George Marsh with similar columns. It is also an 8 day wooden works, and appears to have a similar pendulum length.

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The pendulum rides rather high in this clock, too.

RM

 

[Jim DuBois]

The selection of pendulum lengths in woodworks clocks seems often rather indiscriminate. Usually, the number of teeth on escape wheels will provide immediate clues. 42 teeth on the escape wheel suggest a very short pendulum, i.e. pillar and scroll or short transition lengths. 30, 32, or 36 teeth will usually be for longer pendulums. Generally, the internal gearing will be quite similar between the various tooth counts on the escape wheels. Sometimes there will be a difference in tooth counts on the pinions also, but not always. IIRC, and this is off the top of my head, 32 and 42 tooth count escape wheels are most common across many of the movement makers. So, if you see 42 teeth, it is a good bet the clock will use a short pendulum.

 

[Sooth]

EW on this movement as well as on the Jerome & Darrow 8 day I'm working on have 36 teeth, yet both have a short pendulums. Generally Jim, I do tend to agree 100% regarding 32t and 42t wheels with long vs short rods.

 

[Jim DuBois]

From Supplement 16 by Taylor and Rogers, some interesting comparisons of 8 day WW details.