8 Day English Longcase Movement Project

leeinv66

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Here for your viewing pleasure a potpourri of pictures of SOME of the damage I will be facing as I restore this 8 day longcase movement. It is complete except for the escape wheel and arbor and the fan and its arbor. Geez, that's a lot of ands in one sentence:) As you can see, the poor old thing has lead a very hard life. But then, the easy ones seem to have found a way of avoiding my bench:whistle:
 

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R&A

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What a mess. How do you plan on replacing the left bottom corner?

H/C
 

leeinv66

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What a mess. How do you plan on replacing the left bottom corner?

H/C
I had thought about dovetailing in a piece, but I don't think it would be as solid as the ugly repair it currently has. And, I would also be left with several holes to plug in the plate. This repair has been there a long time, so I think I might just clean it up and live with it.
 

shutterbug

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That looks like one of the bigger challenges in your restoration to me, too. Looks like old brass, and it's going to be tough to work with. The added plate on the other side looks equally challenging, and I would leave that one .... but I'm not sure I'd leave that other one. You might do something similar though. It looks solid with the screws. :)
 

leeinv66

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That looks like one of the bigger challenges in your restoration to me, too. Looks like old brass, and it's going to be tough to work with. The added plate on the other side looks equally challenging, and I would leave that one .... but I'm not sure I'd leave that other one. You might do something similar though. It looks solid with the screws. :)
Yes Shutterbug, on the inside the piece is solidly held in place by the screws going through both plates, but, it is butt ugly:) I think I will clean it up and maybe (those with delicate dispositions may not wont to read this bit) wick a little solder into the crack to at least have the surface clean and level. My thinking is that this movement was heading to someone's scrap pile until I got hold of it. So, anything I do to make it useful, as long as it is reversible, can't be seen as too much of a bodge:whistle:
 

leeinv66

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Here is the bottom corner cleaned up. I did wick solder into the crack on the inside, just to make it look cleaner. I also filled off the rounded heads of the screws flush with the added reinforcing plate. They were counter sunk, so they still have plenty of purchase.

Longcase movement 003.jpg Longcase movement 002.jpg
 

shimmystep

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Just a thought, some brass leaf on the crack might hide it further Peter. Got quite a job there!
 

leeinv66

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Just a thought, some brass leaf on the crack might hide it further Peter. Got quite a job there!
Thanks Shimmy, I might give that a try! It will live here, so I'm the only one that it has to impress. The job is getting easy now. The hard part was getting the tapper pins out so I could split the plates:eek:
 

shutterbug

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I'm curious about that corner break. What was causing such stress there? Does something go in that hole? If nothing, then what you did should be adequate. I like what you did for the other side :)
 

Rob P.

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I'm of two minds about the big plate repair.

One thought is that it's been that way for a long time and obviously worked long enough to allow the bushings to wear out. If that's the case then the history of the movement is there and it should be left alone.

The other thought I have is that it's butt ugly. To the point that if any part of the repair is going to be exposed to view I'd just make a new plate and replace the whole thing using the existing plate as a pattern.

The corner crack I think I would have brazed and it would be invisible. But that's from looking at pictures on the internet - seeing it in real life may change that.

Fixing the suspension post looks to be fairly simple.
 

leeinv66

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I'm curious about that corner break. What was causing such stress there? Does something go in that hole? If nothing, then what you did should be adequate. I like what you did for the other side :)
The hammer spring is the only thing that is attached to that corner and it doesn't have enough strength to cause any damage. Actually, you could relocate the end of the spring and leave the piece out all together. I'm of the opinion it was dropped and landed on this corner. There are several small cracks that radiate upwards from the crack.
 

shutterbug

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Sounds probable :)
 

leeinv66

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Here are some pictures of the movement after its initial clean up. I blended in many of the hammer marks on the back plate, but I didn't want to disturb the set out marks on the front plate, so I will be leaving that mostly as it is. Besides, the rolled plates used to built this movement were never pristine. They have many imperfections both in finish and thickness that cannot be blamed on any of the repairers that have worked on it. Now I will await the arrival of some large winding arbor bushes and try to chase down the missing parts before I start the real work of repairing this one. Longcase movement 014.jpg Longcase movement 008.jpg Longcase movement 011.jpg Longcase movement 012.jpg Longcase movement 013.jpg
 

Tex-clock

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Peter, you have done a great job restoring the tall case movement. I have one that I just brought home this afternoon that in pretty rough shape; it's missing the fly and shaft, gathering pallet and the complete hammer striking assembly. The think the hammer assembly that I need would be very similar to the one on your movement. Do you have any pictures that shows the strike arm outside the plates that I could use as a template. Also, what are your plans for the fly and fly shaft?
Cheers and again great job.
Tex
 

leeinv66

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Hi Tex! I'm trying my luck on ebay for the parts I need, If I have no luck there, I will have to pay some one to make the two arbors my movement is missing. I can buy the fan and escape wheel from several suppliers. As to the strike set up, I can provide you with pictures and measurements as you require them. The only hesitation I have is that we need to make sure your movement has the same strike set up as mine. There are two types that I have seen. One uses a tail on the gathering pallet that stops the strike when it lands on a pin fitted to the end of the rack. The other (like mine) uses a second lever attached to the strike lever that stops the strike internally via a pin fitted to one of the strike side wheels. I am attaching an auction picture of the front of my movement and a link to a recent thread that has pictures of the other strike set up. Which one do you think yours would be?

https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?102010-Cheap-prototype-longcase-test-stand&p=777035#post777035

front of my movement.jpg
 

Tex-clock

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Peter,
Thanks for your quick response, I thought the best way to answer the questions about the strike arm was to post some photos of my movement. You can make the call if the arm assembly that you have would be compatible with my movement. Let me know, I trying to do some research on the gathering pallet as well, if you have any ideas please let me know.

photo (2).JPG photo (3).JPG photo (4).JPG photo (5).JPG photo (6).JPG

I really appreciate your help; I know there will be some work involved in restoring this movement but it will be worth the effort, it's been around for a long time.
Cheers,
Tex
 

leeinv66

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You are ahead of me Tex! I wish I had a nice case like yours to put my movement in! Unfortunately, your movement is different to mine in the way it stops the strike. You need a gathering pallet with a long tail on it that stops when it lands on the pin in your rack. That said, my hammer assembly might give you an idea of what you need. I take some pictures and show you what mine looks like.
 

shimmystep

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IMAG0076.jpg

Here's a pic of the gathering pallet I think you need Tex, on a movement I have just finished. They can be bought and made to fit the arbor
 

shutterbug

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Timesavers has a couple of styles.
 

Tex-clock

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Thanks guys, I found a couple of suppliers of tall case movement parts in the UK. I'll check Timesaver's catalog to see what styles they have. As I progress on this project I will probably be asking for further assistance. Keep us up to date on your movement Peter!
Regards,
Tex
 

shimmystep

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Thanks guys, I found a couple of suppliers of tall case movement parts in the UK. I'll check Timesaver's catalog to see what styles they have. As I progress on this project I will probably be asking for further assistance. Keep us up to date on your movement Peter!
Regards,
Tex
Good stuff. If you put you location and flag in you post header it will help getting you geographically helpful info. Had I known you were in the UK Tex I could have given you few UK links to the part you need. These can be added in the 'settings' page.
 

Tex-clock

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Shimmy, I found the UK suppliers online, I live in the Houston area. I don't have any idea what the shipping would be for the parts but their prices appear to be pretty much in line with Timesavers. I'll check with some of the guys in my chapter this weekend and see if they have any sources or parts. But any information would be appreciated; the rack and gathering pallet on your photo looks very close to the one on my movement.
Tex
 

shimmystep

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Shimmy, I found the UK suppliers online, I live in the Houston area. I don't have any idea what the shipping would be for the parts but their prices appear to be pretty much in line with Timesavers. I'll check with some of the guys in my chapter this weekend and see if they have any sources or parts. But any information would be appreciated; the rack and gathering pallet on your photo looks very close to the one on my movement.
Tex
Very similar. I guess the length of the gathering pallet you need will be determined by the distance between the first tooth and the stop pin on your rack, and the arbor end. As far as I can see there are only a couple of sizes available as new replacements go.
 

leeinv66

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The back cock was a PITA to repair. After I cut the old repair off and started to notch the stub to accept the new end, I found it was cracked. Probably by the last guy and his hammer:mad: Any way, I finally found good metal and this is the result. Notched, pinned and soldered, I'm confident it will do the job.

Longcase Back Cock 007.jpg Longcase Back Cock 006.jpg
 

David S

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The back cock was a PITA to repair. After I cut the old repair off and started to notch the stub to accept the new end, I found it was cracked. Probably by the last guy and his hammer:mad: Any way, I finally found good metal and this is the result. Notched, pinned and soldered, I'm confident it will do the job.

166868.jpg 166869.jpg
Hey Peter it can't be soldered...I don't see big gobs of solder smeared all over the place :). Nice going! That is my kind of fun. Keep posting.
 

leeinv66

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I just realised I never got around to finishing off this thread. I eventually got together all the parts I needed to turn this one into a functioning movement. The escape wheel arbor proved to be the biggest challenge. I couldn't find one to fit it from any of the suppliers and I searched everywhere trying to find a used one that would do the job without any luck at all. I finally brought an arbor from Time Savers that I thought would work, but it turned out to be too short and the pinion was too large in diameter. Now, the solution I came up with to solve this problem may not meet everyone's approval, but it works and I can live with it. This is what I did. I took the short arbor I brought and turned down the diameter of the pinion. Obviously this squared off the profiles of the teeth, so I set to work and hand filed each tooth so its profiles matched those of the wheel I wanted to mate it with. At this stage I though about machining the pinion from the short arbor and then making a longer arbor to fit it to. Unfortunately, the teeth were cut so deeply into the pinion that there just wasn't enough metal left to follow this plan. Not being one to let something like this get the best of me, I set about extending the short arbor. I worked out where the escape wheel collet would sit and cut the short arbor so the end would fit half way into the collet. Then I drilled the end of the arbor to accept the tail of an extension I turned up to make the arbor long enough. I pressed the two pieces together and then I had a usable escape wheel arbor. Now, the escape wheel i brought (well, the second one as the first was too large) did not come with a collet. So, I made the tail of the collet that presses onto the arbor a little longer than it needed to be. This was so when it was pressed onto the arbor it would support the joint in it and add extra strength. If I ever come across an arbor that will fit, I will replace this one. Not because I am worried that it won't stand up, but just to make it right. The next step will be to find a dial that I like at a price I can afford;)

Longcase Escapement 004.jpg Longcase Escapement 003.jpg
 

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