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400 days clock problem??

alan_737

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May 30, 2020
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Hello, Actually I had posted on another thread previously for advice on how to set the beat for this 400 day clock. It is a Kieninger & Obergfell. I eventually got it to tick for half a day and thought all was good and wanted to place it where I liked it to be. But as I tried to change its location, it then stopped again. I tried to set it to beat again. It would go for a while then stopped. Eventually, it got into more problems. Now it refused to tick. As I rotate the pendulum to get it to click, it wont. Can notice that the escape wheel and the anchor pellet do not touch as can be seen in the pictures. Have to push the gear wheel to make it click. It seems that there is no power to push the escape wheel to click. The main spring was fully wound. Reckon that there is a problem with the main spring. Managed to release some of the power, but no change. Hope someone can shade some light to my problem.

400 day 04.jpg 400 day01.jpg kendo01.jpg kendo02.jpg kendo06.jpg 400 day 06.jpg 400 day 07.jpg 400 day 08.jpg
 

roughbarked

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Hope you removed the pendulum before you moved it.
When you take the pendulum off does the suspension hang straight?
I doubt I read the other thread and don't know the history of the clock.
The third wheel has some marks near the pinion that cause me to wonder if someone has had to straighten that arbor before?
 
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Raymond101

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Hi I have the same clock and they are pigs to set up .the arch of your clock is slightly off center. When I say the arch I don't know the correct name . The part that the suspension spring hangs from. The center clamp must be at 90deg and the 2 screws that hold the arch may have come out of alignment.
Your suspension spring must hang true the clock must sit on a perfect level surface use a dot level.
Only then can it be set.
As already mentioned the in previous above. Looks like it has had some previous problems .
 

Jeff T

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if you took the pic when the clock was not running the sup spring is twisted bad it should hang straight between the top and bottom block at rest will not run like that
 

shutterbug

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To me it looks like your anchor (verge) was pushed downward during the move. It's locked up on the escape wheel so deep that it probably can't release a tooth.
 
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tracerjack

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I agree the verge is too deep and the suspension spring is so twisted, it is no wonder the movement won’t run. Most of these that I work on haven’t been running for years. The mainspring on them is either dry or covered in green, sticky old oil. If you haven’t cleaned the movement and mainspring, that is where I would start.
 
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KurtinSA

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This thread would have better visibility if the Moderators were to move it to the 400-Day forum area.

Kurt
 
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Willie X

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Did you buy 'The Book' yet?

It can be difficult even if you have 'The Book' but close to imposable without it.

You have multiple problems there. Willie X
 
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Kevin W.

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First thing i would do, is a complete service, that involves removing the main spring from the barrel and do a clean and lube of it.
Then adress what problems may occur after.
 

shutterbug

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I moved this over to the 400 day forum for more input. The link here will expire in a couple days.
 
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Kypros

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Oct 6, 2022
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I had precisely the same problem last night. I moved the clock from where it was situated as it was running fine for a week after the service and it suddenly stopped working. The problem was that the beat rate anchor ( where the hairspring attaches on top), moved without me knowing during the moving of the clock, messing up the beat rate.
It took me the best part of the hour to realise it. Now it's fine.
 

Raymond101

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Jun 25, 2022
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I have my 400 day in a class cabinet screwed to a solid wall the slightest vibration puts them out just slamming a doors. It takes months of fine tuning. Now I only touch it 2 a year.
Must always lock the pendulum before doing anything.
I put a rasing lift under the pendulum to lock it . Then the lift drops slowly to release.
 
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Kypros

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They are indeed ever so sensitive to the slightest vibration, messing up accuracy.
The other night I put the aforementioned clock next to mine on the shelf, making sure my movements were as gentle as I could manage. Just this threw out the accuracy of my own clock and now I'm constantly adjusting to get it back to the accuracy it had before. (1 minute every 3 months). The other one was also affected but I managed to get it back to a reasonable accuracy. It goes back tonight to the watchmaker friend who trusted me with the repair.
What really bothers me and I don't know if others experience the same situation, is I time the clock to good accuracy for weeks and then when I take it back to the owner, it's off by a mile.
 
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Raymond101

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A bit of folded cardboard with a V cut in it works quite well.
Yes this may work. But if you have a hole exactly center in the base. First you know the pendulum is hanging true . I use 2 tubes with a helical slot the cylinders have grease inside so when raised it locks the pendulum and on release it Rotates in the same direction to start the swing without out any wobble. Get a perfect stop start.
 

alan_737

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Now, having tried to solve problem of getting thd beat, I met up with a new problem with it. It wont tick at all now. It seems that the tooth of the escape wheel will not touch the pallet on entrying as shown in the picture. The escape wheel which is surposed to move forward and touch the pallet does not do so. The escape wheel does not have the power to propel forward to touch the pallet. On further checking, the gear wheel marked in the picture is movable or slacking. Does it have anything to do with this problem? I cant figure out the problem. Any advice?

20221102_144927.jpg 20221102_145007.jpg 20221123_095503.jpg
 

KurtinSA

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In early November you said it wouldn't tick. The next post above you said it wouldn't tick. So what have you done in between then and now? If the clock won't tick, or rather, the escape wheel with all the pointed teeth won't move, then you have some serious resistance from the main spring barrel all the way up to the escape wheel. So, what attempts have you done to find out where that resistance is?

Kurt
 

alan_737

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May 30, 2020
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In early November you said it wouldn't tick. The next post above you said it wouldn't tick. So what have you done in between then and now? If the clock won't tick, or rather, the escape wheel with all the pointed teeth won't move, then you have some serious resistance from the main spring barrel all the way up to the escape wheel. So, what attempts have you done to find out where that resistance is?

Kurt
Hi Kurt, yes from early Nov i faced this problem. All this while was trying out to figure what went wrong. But failed. Only thing i noticed is when i pushed again the gear wheel then the escape wheel will click. It seems that the gear wheel is a bit slack starting from the 1st gear wheel after the main spring. What does this mean?
 

roughbarked

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Basically it means that the power which should turn the escape wheel is not there. Somewhere between the mainspring and the escape wheel, the power has been interrupted. The entire clock will need to be disassembled and cleaned before the problem may be revealed.

If you have never done this before then I recommend that you take it to a competent repairer.
 

Schatznut

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I started out in this hobby some years ago by dinking around with a 400-day clock, trying to get it to run again. I was moderately successful for a very short time, and it became apparent to me that if I was to make it run like new, I'd have to overhaul it like new, so I bought a couple of books, added to my collection of tools, and went after it. Ultimately, after a lot of trial and error, I succeeded.

Then I repeated that process with another 40 or 50 clocks. Today I'm up to my eyeballs in operating clocks of all sizes and shapes. And I love it.

There are multiple messages here. Take from it what you will.
 
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Schatznut

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I don't understand the comments about the standard Kundo movement being finicky. If anything, I've found it to be just the opposite, almost as robust as a Schatz 49.
 

KurtinSA

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When you do that the clock apart for service, be sure and check how each element of the power train meshes with the next higher wheel/arbor. You might find that you have a bent tooth or something that creates a hard stop where things mesh together.

Kurt
 

MartinM

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I don't understand the comments about the standard Kundo movement being finicky. If anything, I've found it to be just the opposite, almost as robust as a Schatz 49.
I have to agree. The worst problem with KundOs is the adjustable anchor and prior repairers messing with them. Which begins the whole, "Adjust everything till it won't run." process for that repairer.
 

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