341-020 Help

wow

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I need to know where the spring on the rack attaches. I see no pin anywhere. Puzzled:???:
Thanks,
Will

5550221D-70DC-498E-8F82-6336766D4134.jpeg FBD09DAA-96EB-46C6-ACE7-D9498A21B561.jpeg
 

Schatznut

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Will, I've got one on the bench right now. This is the only spring on the front plate. Does this photo help?
341-020 spring.jpg
 

Bruce Alexander

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Hi Will,

It looks like you might make the free end of the G.A. Spring hook on to one of the C-Clips, but do you really want to?

If there is no clear anchor point for the spring, I think that I would test the movement without it installed to see if it's really necessary.

The newer movements don't have one, right?

Hopefully someone has worked with this iteration and can give you a definitive answer. (Maybe ask Mark Butterworth)

What's the year code on this movement?

Regards,

Bruce
 

Willie X

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It goes over to the right and hooks onto a little tang at the bottom of that odd shaped black arm. This arm works to slow the dropping of the rack, cuts down on the noise. This feature was only used in the early 70s. Willie X
 
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Bruce Alexander

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Thanks Willie!
I'd love to see that in action. Wonder why they dropped it?
The Seth Thomas 113 is the only other movement that I've worked with that has a Rack dampening design.
 

bangster

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It is SO COOL to have people on this Message Board!who know obscure stuff! Such as Willie. :thumb:
 

Bruce Alexander

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I agree bangster. I'm surprised that there is a Hermle from the early 70's still on the road!
 

Willie X

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Those varied greatly on the lifespan thing.
I guess Hermle was fine tuning their planed obsolence back then. :) Many customers dumped their clocks when they found them to be undependable.

wow, I would like to know more about that clock too. It might be the last of its kind ... Just kidding, there's probably 100s of em hiding out in closets and attics everywhere.

Bangs, thank You for the kind words.
Take care, Willie
 
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wow

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Those varied greatly on the lifespan thing.
I guess Hermle was fine tuning their planed obsolence back then. :) Many customers dumped their clocks when they found them to be undependable.

wow, I would like to know more about that clock too. It might be the last of its kind ... Just kidding, there's probably 100s of em hiding out in closets and attics everywhere.

Bangs, thank You for the kind words.
Take care, Willie
Thanks again, Willie. I made a video of it in operation. Works great. You can’t see the spring because it goes under the lever. I’ll try to post the video.

 

Willie X

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wow,
I was curious about the repair work it had.
If it was used it's whole life, it would have had extensive repair work and several replacement parts. Maybe it was in a time capsule!
Willie X
 

Bruce Alexander

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Hey Will,

Thanks for taking the time to post the video.

It's kind of like a Rack with two tails!

That Chime Correction/Dampening Wheel is tricky.

So there is on pin/post that points towards the plate? If so, that must be for chime correction, yes?

The pin/post that points away from the plate lowers the Rack and that is shown in your video.

Why not just one piece though? The spring allows some movement (rotation) between the brass Rack and the dampening black (steel) tail. It looks like it is strictly for dampening purposes. Turning the hands Counter-Clockwise, or the Rack failing to be gathered (Strike Train power loss) would not affect it.

Without the spring properly installed I could see the black dampening tail possibly rotating clockwise and potentially fouling up the works. It has to be properly installed.

That's a pretty neat complication.

Thanks again for the video Will and thanks again Willie!

Who knows how many of these designs are lurking out there? Maybe this might be another good example for an edited Thread Title to help folks find it in the future...maybe something like "341-020 Help early Hermle Hour Rack Spring" or something similar. What do you think bangster ?

Regards,

Bruce
 

wow

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wow,
I was curious about the repair work it had.
If it was used it's whole life, it would have had extensive repair work and several replacement parts. Maybe it was in a time capsule!
Willie X
Willie, it looks like it was never worked on before. It belonged to the customer’s mother and did not run for many years. I had to install a C-2 bushing on both ends and a few other ones but it was in better condition than most 50 year old movements made by Hermle. It’s out of a simple little tambour.

Bruce, you nailed it. It is simply for dampening. Nothing else.
 

Bruce Alexander

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Will,
Looks like it has some "water spots". Perhaps someone has done some kind of cleaning on it. The spring wasn't properly installed when you got the movement so someone was probably in there tinkering. I can't imagine the spring just coming loose on its own unless the clock was drop-kicked or something. :chuckling:
 

wow

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Will,
Looks like it has some "water spots". Perhaps someone has done some kind of cleaning on it. The spring wasn't properly installed when you got the movement so someone was probably in there tinkering. I can't imagine the spring just coming loose on its own unless the clock was drop-kicked or something. :chuckling:
Yea, it looks a little rough but it’s running and chiming and striking as it should on the test stand. I think some of these Hermles had plates with a different grade of brass than others. Some clean up shiney and new easily and others just stay dull after cleaning. Maybe it’s lack of laquer. This one had spots from the get go and they won’t come off unless I polish them off. Aint going there!
 

Bruce Alexander

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Aint going there
I don't blame you Will. That would be a waste of your time. Those spots may have been there for decades or perhaps they are more recent. Doesn't matter.

I'm currently replacing a 351-050 H with a factory fresh unit. The original was beat. It has notched chime hammer tails with anemic lifts. Grungy oil sinks top to bottom, and a broken chime mainspring. Mark sold one to me for a lot less than I'd charge to overhaul/repair the original (shipping included). The only thing is that I needed to order some Etsyntha 859. It didn't look like there was adequate oil from the factory, so I'm waiting for that before I continue testing it. It's a small bottle. The owners said they would like to have the expense added to their bill so they can keep some on hand. It should be a lifetime supply for them.

I took the pendulum leader from the original movement. The new one would not have worked. I also took the hammer transport brackets off of the original and installed them on the new movement. I could completely rebuild/repair the original but honestly, I'm relieved that the owner decided to replace it instead. I think that in this case it's the best option for everyone.

Their winding key "wings" are a little bent. It's still usable but I've not seen that before. That and the broken chime mainspring has me thinking that they may need to back off a little when they are re-winding the clock. :)

At any rate, I'm getting off-topic. Great Thread Will. Good stuff to know if you're going to work with these modern German movements.

Thanks

Bruce
 

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