31 day Korean clock - Time and Strike

stickfly

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Good evening,
I have searched for a few weeks but cannot find any info' so decided to post .... apologies if i have missed the obvious here.
I have a Korean 31 day clock that keeps fairly good time but the chimes make no sense at all : The clock seems to chime random counts i.e. it never chimes the correct number for the actual hour, but chimes a random number. It may sound 3 chimes at 6 o'clock 8 chimes at 7 o'clock, 5 chimes at 8, 10 chimes at 9 etc.
There does not seem to be any correlation between the actual time of the clock and the number of chimes.
Is there a simple answer ?
Regards ..... Gary.
 

Salsagev

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We need some pictures to see whats going on. It sounds like a rack thats not falling properly because it's dirty.
 

stickfly

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We need some pictures to see whats going on. It sounds like a rack thats not falling properly because it's dirty.
Thanks Salsagev,
I was hoping that someone would read this and have an instant answer due to having the same problem in the past.
I will take some photo's of the movement tomorrow and post them.
This clock is hanging in my shed, before I placed it there I made sure that it was sealed with silicon so that no moisture could get in.
I removed the hands and dial a few days ago because the clock would not run at all. I could see a spring that was caught in the teeth of a wheel. This spring was running around the great wheel and looked like it was supposed to give tension to the mainspring click. I managed to flick it aside and the clock started running as normal. There was no sign of moisture or corrosion on the movement although it may have some dirt, I didn't look too close as the movement is running strong.
But the problem with the chimes has been happening for the last few years, I just decided to ignore it until now.
Regards ..... Gary.
 

Salsagev

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Before you try any repair work, do know that the springs in this clock are very large and dangerous. I am not sure why the spring would have caught on a gear but my guess it that it is dirty and sticky. Sometimes it causes the spring to be retained by its own stickiness and forcefully release when when enough pressure builds up. This happens as it’s winding down. Not sure if that makes sense.

Also, these movements are not the best quality resulting in irreparable damage (or not worth it).
 

new2clocks

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Thanks Salsagev,
I was hoping that someone would read this and have an instant answer due to having the same problem in the past.
I will take some photo's of the movement tomorrow and post them.
This clock is hanging in my shed, before I placed it there I made sure that it was sealed with silicon so that no moisture could get in.
I removed the hands and dial a few days ago because the clock would not run at all. I could see a spring that was caught in the teeth of a wheel. This spring was running around the great wheel and looked like it was supposed to give tension to the mainspring click. I managed to flick it aside and the clock started running as normal. There was no sign of moisture or corrosion on the movement although it may have some dirt, I didn't look too close as the movement is running strong.
But the problem with the chimes has been happening for the last few years, I just decided to ignore it until now.
Regards ..... Gary.
Gary,

It sounds like you are having problems with the strike, not the chime.

You would be best served if this thread were posted in the repair section.

Just click on the REPORT button. Ask a moderator to move this thread to the repair section. Please do NOT start a new thread, as this will be confusing.

Best of luck!

Regards.
 

R. Croswell

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......and we still need good pictures of this movement, front and back. Korean 31 day clocks often get an undeserved bad name. They are a little different but generally are repairable and typically run well after proper service.

RC
 

Jay Fortner

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Asian clocks fall into two categories.
Decent quality that respond well proper service techniques and total crap that make good 100yrd targets.
The finish on the arbors is a prime indicator of which ones are fixable. White steel arbors normally are the good ones with relatively hard pivots. If the arbors have a blued or black oxide finish take 'em out back and "Choot Im". You can polish the finish off the pivots but the steel underneath is butter soft.
Many of these clock movements whether they're the good ones or not are coated with some kind of goo and it's probably that goo that is causing your rack to stick.
 

Dick Feldman

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My experience with Asian made clocks over the last 45+ years is that:
1. They many times have nice looking cases
2. The movements are made with inferior materials throughout ie. Light gauge and inferior quality metal in the plates, clicks, click return springs, ratchet gears, arbors.
3. Movement failure is normally due to #2 above or a complication of that.
4. Some are dangerous to wind. Because of the long main springs (to get 31 days) and the flaws in the click assemblies. When a click assembly fails, the entire force of the main spring is released to the winding key in less time than it takes for one to remove their hand. The result of that is normally bleeding, a blue thumbnail, etc. I continually suggest anyone owning one of those to wind it with thick leather gloves.
5. Those sell cheaply because of good reasons.
If the engineering flaws included with these clocks were included in normal household goods like baby trams or bicycles, the manufacturers/sellers would be in jail in this country due to negligence.
Incidentally, because those movements are a danger to me as well, I refuse to work on them.
JMHO
Dick
 

Jay Fortner

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My experience with Asian made clocks over the last 45+ years is that:
1. They many times have nice looking cases
2. The movements are made with inferior materials throughout ie. Light gauge and inferior quality metal in the plates, clicks, click return springs, ratchet gears, arbors.
3. Movement failure is normally due to #2 above or a complication of that.
4. Some are dangerous to wind. Because of the long main springs (to get 31 days) and the flaws in the click assemblies. When a click assembly fails, the entire force of the main spring is released to the winding key in less time than it takes for one to remove their hand. The result of that is normally bleeding, a blue thumbnail, etc. I continually suggest anyone owning one of those to wind it with thick leather gloves.
5. Those sell cheaply because of good reasons.
If the engineering flaws included with these clocks were included in normal household goods like baby trams or bicycles, the manufacturers/sellers would be in jail in this country due to negligence.
Incidentally, because those movements are a danger to me as well, I refuse to work on them.
JMHO
Dick
Careful there Dick,you're own shadow my jump out and get you.
 

Roy Gardner

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I have a 30-day Korean short-drop schoolhouse clock with "Montgomery Ward" on the dial, model number 45-9816. I have yet to take it apart because it runs well and was rather inexpensive at a yard sale.

Fuji122 048.jpg

Here's an article that praises this clock, not for its quality (low), but for its surprising accuracy:
 
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Dick Feldman

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I have a good friend that has one of those.
He praises it a lot.
I keep telling him he should invite his brother-in-law over for supper once a month and ask him to wind the clock while he is there.
He hates his wife's brother and it would be just rewards if the click assembly failed when the
BIL was winding it.
Your clock will likely make you bleed one day.
Maybe not tomorrow but some day.
Wear thick leather gloves to wind it if you like your fingers.
Dick
 
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Willie X

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The late stuff from China is the worst, except maybe for the early stuff from India. :)

Some of the carved cases from the Philippines (?) are really nice. I have a Cuckoo Clock Company 3/4 scale repo Store Clock from Japan. The case and movement are both very good quality.

So, I would say Asian clocks can vary from very nice to Bull Honkie. At least (unlike the US) they are still making clocks ...

My 2, Willie X
 

Roy Gardner

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Maybe I should wind it with a torque-limited drill motor on low speed. That way, when the click fails, the mainspring will just try to turn the drill motor backwards and my hand will be a safe distance away with an uninterrupted grip on the drill motor.
 

shutterbug

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Be sure you set the torque low. You could break the spring. That would be worse for the clock than a broken click.
 

Kevin W.

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This clock is a time and strike clock. There are no chimes. Yes agreed the main springs are longer, but i would not say they are more hazardous. I have a few older Asian clocks that are built well and i do like them. The newer Asian and Korean clocks, no thanks, i dont like those ones.
 

R. Croswell

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Of course one can avoid, or greatly diminish the risk of click failure injury bu simply following the proper method of winding a clock. That is, turn the key, release tension and make sure the click holds, then and only they let go of the key and get another half turn. It would be a fairly simple operation to remove the Mickey Mouse Korean click system and replace it with an American style. Me, I would be just as concerned winding an American Sessions movement.

RC
 

Willie X

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The only trouble with the clicks is brought on by poor winding habits, as RC just mentioned. The clicks are steel with a hole near the center of the click. If you hammer them enough, the click will snap in half, at that hole. IME the click springs are very dependable.

As far as the springs, most are .0155" x 3/4" x 155" long. This is not as strong as most American springs but about 50% longer. I never thought about them as being any more "dangerous" than any other 8-Day spring. The spring quality is high. Just cut them off to 120" and you will have a great spring for nearly all American clocks ...

Willie X
 

Jay Fortner

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Of course one can avoid, or greatly diminish the risk of click failure injury bu simply following the proper method of winding a clock. That is, turn the key, release tension and make sure the click holds, then and only they let go of the key and get another half turn. It would be a fairly simple operation to remove the Mickey Mouse Korean click system and replace it with an American style. Me, I would be just as concerned winding an American Sessions movement.

RC
Or old Ingrahams with those small wire click springs. I've been popped by those. The worse ones are modern Kieningers with rounded tips on the click wheels and clicks. How many of y'all have replaced click springs on those because the click jumps out with such force it breaks the click spring. They're supposed to be high quality German movements.
 

Willie X

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When I watch customers wind their clocks, it's amazing that they last as long as they do! Willie X
 

Willie X

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These are a LITTLE different but still just a clock, not a weapon to 'strike' fear in anyone. Nice pun huh?

You've got to have the right aoproach ... heeeere little clockie, nice little clockie - clockie. Pleeeese don't chew my fingers up little clockie. You know.

Willie X
 

Salsagev

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Nah, I think I would just sell the clock case as parts. Unless the clock has 5 chime melodies or 3 unique melodies.
 

Salsagev

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I say to try to focus on saving rare/uncommon antiques rather than try to screw around with converting modern clocks (likely endless supply).
 

R. Croswell

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Or old Ingrahams with those small wire click springs. I've been popped by those.
This is a failed Ingraham click from my Ingraham kitchen clock. Not sure why it failed like this but the click really takes a lot of punishment. Out of an abundance of caution I replaced the click and added a second backup click to both main wheels. Makes a strange sound when it winds. A year of so later I noticed that only one click was clicking. When I finally got around to checking, sure enough the original click on the other wheel had failed (click spring failed - it didn't bust the click in half) but the backup click held so no blood lost. I believe that some of the new Hermle movements come with dual clicks. I think they call it an anti-kickback feature. Not hard to add to most open spring American movements.

RC

DSC00928.jpg DSC00950.jpg
 

shutterbug

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I've had a couple of customers who wanted me to put a quartz movement in their GF clock. I use the ones that have recorded tubular chimes in them. They sound nice, and you can adjust the volume (the usual complaint about the mechanical movement). I add a pendulum swinger and everything looks great. I also usually get a decent running movement as a bonus. Some people just don't want to mess with winding, I guess.
 

kinsler33

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Quartz clocks came out perhaps 30 years ago. Most young adults have no memory of mechanical clocks and no particular feelings about the precise nature of their clock's movement. But I do, so I am never happy about quartzifying a mechanical clock except perhaps for old thirty-hour novelty clocks.

Has anyone else gotten complaints from customers who didn't understand that their clock must be wound every week?

M Kinsler
 

Simon Holt

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"You told me that the clock you sold me had to be wound every week. After a week, I tried to wind it but it was still fully wound. After two weeks it stopped, but when I tried to wind it it was still fully wound."
 

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