3 Examples of the 3992B Navigation Watches

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Jim Haney, Nov 11, 2016.

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  1. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #1 Jim Haney, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    This is a 3992B with the seldom seen 12-24 Hr. dial.

    DSCN4759.JPG DSCN4762.JPG DSCN4764.JPG DSCN4766.JPG

    Serial number #C2372 which I thought was almost last in the runs but found the contract in the Hamilton records and it was sold in 1945 to a,

    Commanding Officer
    NY Ordance District
    80 Broadway
    New York 5, N. Y.

    There were 2 watches sold and the serial numbers are listed on the contract.

    The only way I could post the contracts was a PDF download?



    I looked back on the old threads about 3992B (52 Total) and found several with good information listed below. I will add another post with the 3 type dials know to these watches.


    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?60542-Hamilton-3992B&highlight=3992B


    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?98139-3992B-Info&highlight=3992B

    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?55045-Info-on-a-Navigation-Master-Watch-please&highlight=3992B

    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?18175-Hamilton-3992B-Questions&highlight=3992B
     

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  2. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    These are the other 3992B dials










    The different back markings
    DSCN4771.JPG DSCN4772.JPG DSCN4766.JPG
     

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  3. bvanfossen

    bvanfossen Registered User

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    Those are very nice, thank you for sharing.

    If I bought 3993b would I be able to look up who bought it with the soldiers name? That way I can research him too.

    I take it you looked up the buyer in the NAWCC records?
     
  4. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #4 Jim Haney, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
    If you read the links on the old threads, they say that the sales were assigned to a contract # or number of the company who bought the watches and we don't know the code to see what the numbers mean.

    On Military watches, we would never be able to track a sale to a soldier, because the watches were sold in lots to Quartermasters Hqts. or large distributions who would them issue the watches to the troops.

    Here is a clear copy of the Contract for the watch in post #1 without having to mess with the download.


    DSCN4773.JPG DSCN4774.JPG

    There is a typo above the serial # line, 3392B instead of 3992B and the case number of the case is K016763 instead of what they typed, K016013.

    I also see there were sold in container,with shock absorbing mount. Watch Box.

    I assume they are refering to the round metal cans with springs on four sides and the watch clips in a ring in the middle. and not a watch box?
     
  5. Douglas Romero

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    #5 Douglas Romero, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2016
    Jim, thanks for reviving and adding to this thread on 3992s.

    When i I bought mine, and sold a few years back, I could have bought 4 of the same from the dealer. Kinda wish I did. 3c2260 marked on mine on dial, movement, case back and wood case. Mine was deeply embossed on silver case back. Looks like stamped by Hulk Hogan.

    image.jpeg
     
  6. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    which is unusual, as case markings were typically described and shown in the contract... of course for foreigns could be different... broad arrow of course was a requirement at least by GB... also the apparent material shown in the above case back is 'out there' gold filled for mil cases is not typical... and that last image i think is a mix-up... that is a hamilton factory case, non MIL.
     
  7. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I suspect Doug's extra pictures were a stumble with the attachment system. I can delete them if Doug would like. :)
     
  8. Douglas Romero

    Douglas Romero Registered User
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    Thanks Tom - pls delete the extra attachments....doug
     
  9. Douglas Romero

    Douglas Romero Registered User
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    Jim's 2nd link has my previous post of the 3992b I sold.

    I should have looked there 1st. I thought it interesting that the seller had 3 other 3992bs all like the one I purchased some years back.
     
  10. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Another 3992B with a Silver case and matching numbers wooden box and it should have a matching number dial but it is missing

    3C2358 and has 115 under the number on the box.

    . It you go to post 1 and use the 2nd link you can see what dial it should have on it.

    When I started this thread I had thought only 3 dials were made for these 3992B watchs but now we know that 4 were produced for them.

    Quote from Google search.......
    The above Hamilton started out as a U.S. Navigation Master Watch (per the identification on the case back). It was then provided to the Royal Canadian Navy as part of the “Lend Lease Program” of WWII.

    The Canadian Navy re-marked the watch, as indicated. The Canadian Navy markings on the case back are actually C.H.S. 3 (the “s” apparently looks like an 8). This marking stands for “Canadian Hydrographic Service,” this branch of the Canadian (and British) Navy was responsible for timepieces among other things. "CHS" along with the number "3" is a code to indicate that the watch is a deck watch adjusted for isochronism in a minimum of two positions. Deck watches could be taken out on deck with the sextant for navigation; regulations did not permit the ships chronometer to be moved.

    It is interesting to see the Canadians using the watch movement serial number as the issue number on case and dial. This is a rather old practice found on 19th century English watches. The US military did not repeat the movement serial number on the case. England and Canada often did so. The number 88 may have been a batch or control number of some kind. I can’t help you with that.

    The Broad Arrow within a “C” on the back of the watch is the Canadian military property mark, placed upon all manner of military equipment from boots to cannon. The broadarrow standing alone without being inside of a "C" is the British property mark, as indicated above.

    The number on the dial was probably placed there by the Royal Canadian Navy at some point when it was first inspected for service or sent in for repair.


    DSCN6907.JPG DSCN6905.JPG DSCN6903.JPG DSCN6904.JPG DSCN6908.JPG DSCN6906.JPG
     
    Douglas Romero and terry hall like this.
  11. Douglas Romero

    Douglas Romero Registered User
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    Jim, nice find. Thanks for the post. Looks like the rear case stamping done same as the deep style on the one I had. Could they have been hand punched if that is correct term? One I had showed impressions to the inside cover. Doug
     
  12. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Doug,
    Yes I believe these watches were the group of 317 sold to the Canadian Navy,

    See this ,old post of Don Dalhburg in 2005 which is in the last link at the top in my post #1..


    We also have the contract records showing where batches of watches were sold. For example from 1943 record of the sale of 317 watches:

    "The Goldsmiths Company of Canada
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    120 Wellington St. W.
    Att: F. B. McFarren
    317 --- 3992B Master Navigation Watches 50-091
    (Cases 80% Silver)
    for Canadian Naval Vessels
    For Dept. of Munitions and Supplies
    (Shock Proof Mounted Watches)

    (Shipped complete - Movements, Case and boxes)
    not separately as we usually do."


    The wooden boxes and Silver cases are all correct and that would explain the number they assigned to the box under the watch serial numbers.
     
  13. butlercreek

    butlercreek Registered User
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    Are the specific serial numbers for the 317 Canadian watches know?......
     
  14. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Not that I know of. I looked at the 9 pages of contracts and only found 3 that specified a serial number on the 3rd pages of contracts,
    They are,
    3C2349
    3C2373
    3C2486
    These are the contracts, I hope they will copy and not have to download.
    Ham3992B.pdf
     

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