23j Ball

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by fergusonjohna, Mar 19, 2017.

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  1. fergusonjohna

    fergusonjohna New Member

    Mar 19, 2017
    Country Flag:
    Was there ever a 23j walthan Ball produced? Have heard many arguements over this. Please help.
  2. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Hi fergusonjohna:

    Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

    There was a previous (about 4+ years ago) thread on this subject, but I've been unable to find it. I believe that nobody participating in that thread had actually seen a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement.

    Basically, Waltham was said to have made some 16-size, 23-jewel Official RR Standard (ORRS) watches for Ball in the serial number range B 060,701 - B 061,000 (page 35 of American Railroad Watches, George E. Townsend, Col. G.E. Townsend, Alma, MI, 1977).

    Ed Ueberall and I maintain a data base of surviving railroad watches (and other watches of interest to us). Our data base contains the reported Waltham-Ball ORRS watches, all 16-size, 17-jewel:

    B 060,706
    B 060,708
    B 060,713
    B 060,729
    B 060,729
    B 060,759
    B 060,768
    B 060,771
    B 060,773
    B 060,778
    B 060,783
    B 060,809
    B 060,809
    B 060,812
    B 060,836
    B 060,841
    B 060,842
    B 060,863
    B 060,869
    B 060,972

    A picture of serial number B 060,915's movement was published on page 151 of Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 16, C. Shugart and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 1996. The picture probably appears in other editions. It's caption states that it is a 23-jewel movement, but the photo and its reproduction is too poor to actually see the markings or details.

    Perhaps your new thread will bring a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement to light.
  3. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

    Mar 31, 2010
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    In addition to what Kent said..............

    The picture is still included. In the description you find very rare in bold letters and the watch is given a 5 star rarity.
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member Donor Sponsor NAWCC Member

    Aug 24, 2000
    retired SW dev
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    When looking at anomalies in books like the price guide, I have been told that sometimes interesting strange facts are inserted to provide a "plagiarism trap" for those using the source to produce their own list of information. Since the information is not real anyone else who references it must be taking it from the trap source.
  5. John Cote

    John Cote Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    Midwest USA
    Country Flag:

    I have heard this too...The 18s 25j Ben Franklin is one of these "traps?"
  6. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Thanks to johnbscott the earlier thread on the 23-jewel Waltham-Ball can be seen.
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