19th century English signed bracket clocks with going barrels

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by novicetimekeeper, May 15, 2017.

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  1. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Jul 26, 2015
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    I know that most dial clocks were already centrally manufactured by the beginning of the 18th century, but these were fusee.

    When it comes to small bracket/mantel clocks produced in the latter part of the 19th century where did they come from? I was looking at a small clock with a signature on the dial and the back of the movement under the pendulum. It has a number that isn't a T&R number and it has a going barrel. Just a timepiece and I thought attractive but I have no experience of clocks this late.

    Is there a resource for serial numbers like the one for T&R
     
  2. daveR

    daveR Registered User
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    Interesting question there Nick as I also don't know either. I think even H&M (handley and Moore ) who also made movements for others to brand were long gone by the time you are referring to, but I don't know their dates. A quick google look shows that British United Clock co started in 1885 mass producing movements. Maybe some research into the companies that "united" may give some more information. I think a book was published last year on English clock making of this period , or maybe a little later (early 20th cent)
    David
     
  3. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I think Jonathan has that book

    I have a small bid in for it, if I win will start a thread.
     
  4. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    The two best known suppliers of movements in such clocks up to the end of the 19th C afaik were T&R and John Moore & Sons (formerly Handley & Moore), other well known makers were Dent, Barraud & Lund and Vulliamy. I understand they made going barrel movements but none of these makers produced cheap movements. I'm not aware of a souce for serial numbers other than for T&R but without knowing the maker a list of serial #s is of little help.

    As to the BUCC, formed in 1885, it wasn't a union of existing firms but a new firm and was the first British company to make inexpensive mass produced movements based on American production techniques.

    If the said book is Clockmaking in England & Wales in the 20th C it doesn't cover the subject matter of this thread. I did write a review of it in the Horological Books forum.
     
  5. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    well it looks quality, I'll send you a link jonathan.

    Nick
     
  6. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    Would this be the clock for sale in Italy that relates to one of your earlier posts? If so, it does look to be a quality item, but shipping from Italy is not a simple task with their rules on antiques...

    Phil
     
  7. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    No, the clock is in the UK.

    I'm intrigued though, I have bought in Denmark with no problem and I am currently bidding in Spain, I had assumed the auction house would advise if there were a problem with shipping. They are all British clocks though, so being returned to their country of origin and they are not antiquities.
     
  8. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    Italy has special rules on antiquities, which means that you have to get approval from the relevant ministry to take anything over 50 years old (I think it's 50) put of the country. So if you try to get someone to ship something for you you hit problems with bureaucracy and extra costs. Of course, Italy being part of the EU has no customs at the borders with other EU countries, so it is a difficult rule to police if you are visiting the country...

    I bought a really nice strut clock by Thomas Cole at auction from Italy, over the internet, but had a few issues getting it to Australia...

    anyway, there is a nice McCabe clock selling soon which I would have bid on if it weeent for the fact that it is in Italy.

    Phil
     
  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I can understand the need for rules on antiquities, but not defining that as over 50 years. I would have thought 3-400 would be a more sensible starting point, though really should be older.
     
  10. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    Well, the McCabe clock sold for more than the estimate, but less than it would sell for in the uK - it was wannenes auction house, lot 806. Would have been very tempted had I not had the problems last time!
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    have you a link? OK now it is sold.
     
  12. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    sounds cheap, though if it is silk suspension has it been modified?

    Not my thing, but I do like the black ebonised regency clocks.
     
  13. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    #14 zedric, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
    No, it's an English clock in an French fashion, so if I understood correctly it has a spring suspension, anchor escapement, twin fusee but with half hour passing strike.
     
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