1907 Herschede grandfather clock - striking chime issue

[BB1]

Hello Folks - I have inherited a grandfather clock that I already gave the background on here on this earlier post - https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/grandfather-clock-information-please.176976/

The clock had been cared for and was running fine in all respects as of last summer when it was moved, by van, several hundred miles from my parent's home to mine. When we prepped the clock for that move we removed the 3 weights and all 5 chimes from the cabinet, as well as the pendulum. We also did some work to make sure the 3 pulleys that hold the weights were all the way up and secured so they couldn't move around during transit. The clock was lain on its back in the van and everything was done as carefully as possible. Eventually I went about putting everything back together as it was and got that done. And started the clock as normal - wound the 3 weights up to the top and pushed on the pendulum to get it going. Everything is working fine except for one thing. The far-right chime (designed as I understand it, for striking out the hour count at the top of each hour) is not doing anything at all (likewise the smallest weight, the one on the left side, which as I understand powers the hour strike, is not moving down at all).

I did check the level of the clock and it's off a bit but not by too much and I haven't gone through the steps to fix that. Also when researching this issue I did find some posts mentioning a possible root cause was over-tightening the small weight up too high. I really don't think that's the case - I wound it up as normal at my home after setting up the clock.

I've pasted several pictures below (more on the aforementioned link) specific to the parts of the clockwork involved here, at least as far as I can tell. In the first image the red box is around the mechanism which IF it would turn, seems to be what would trigger the hour strike. It's not moving at all during the top of the hour melody. In the 2nd picture below you can see the rest of that mechanism as it goes over by string to a hammer over there that would strike the far-right hour chime IF that were working. In the blue box you can see the hammer that would strike the far-right chime for the hour count. It's in the all the way back (farthest away from chime) position...and you cannot move that hammer manually at this point to bang that particular chime - there's no slack in that line to allow for it. In the red you can see that that piece is also on one extreme of it's range of movement (i.e. looking from the front of the clock, it can't rotate counterclockwise at all). So because the gears don't seem to be engaging for this small weight, it seems like none of this is moving.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get this hour chime working again? Thanks in advance.
Ben

 

[wow]

Some hershedes have an on/off switch on the right side of the dial for the chimes and one on the left side for the hour strike. Could yours be such and it is turned off?

 

[BB1]

Hello Will - I should have included 1 more picture to answer that. The switch for that is set to "STRIKE" already. It's always been kept in that position at least as far as I know being around it. See below.

 

[wow]

Sometimes they get bent. Check the lever that switch/rod is attached to and see if it is releasing the strike train when it is switched to strike.

 

[Dick Feldman]

It looks like all of the cables are on their spools properly. If I were called out on a service call for someone in your situation, that is the first thing I would expect.
Has the chime train completed it's sequence? Remember how that works?
The time train triggers the chime train and when that completes the hour sequence, it releases the strike train.
Is the strike train held up by the chime train?
Good luck with that,

Dick

.

 

[shutterbug]

Could we see a closer pic of the strike fly? Something does not look right there - like it is not centered and hitting on something it shouldn't.

 

[BB1]

Hello folks - first I apologize for not replying to your last suggestions/queries here. My house was impacted by the big freeze we had in Texas in 2021 and I had major water damage and subsequently renovation work on my house for many months. Fortunately the clock was not affected. I just now got it out of storage and have it set back up. So now I will try to continue on here w/ this post.

I am attaching a few more pictures, along w/ 2 or 3 video clips. Someone asked for closer pic of the strike fly - I think I know what the "fly" is - it's some part that spins around really fast when the strikes would be occurring for those few seconds --- that thing never gets to spinning. The video clips are to show operation at the top of the hour when all the bells/whistles are supposed to happen

I did try to check if the linkage behind that "Silent" on/off switch for the strike was connected. It's very hard to see back there as I can't look straight-on at it due to the clock face being in the way. If I move the lever all the way to the top I can see some other lever just barely get moved by that operation - and similar when push it the other way down. Something here could very well be the problem - it's just so difficult for me to understand what all those levers/things should be doing from this angle of view, and when I can't spot anything that just stands out as obviously broken/wrong.

Someone asked if the chime train had completed its sequence. Yes, definitely it has. Just the strike doesn't happen at the top of the hour. Since the strike weight (closest to the left of clock) is not going down any - it's all the way at the top - I assume that's part of the issue.

I just tried to apply some pressure pulling down on that strike weight, at the point in time when the clock should be striking - just to see if that nudges something that is stuck. It didn't help.

If anyone has any Hershedes diagram for the clock movement of this one, please share so I can better tell what I'm looking at. Perhaps even a newer Hershedes would have used a similar movement as this from years back.

Thanks all

 

[shutterbug]

Have you let the clock run uninterrupted for at least an hour to see if the strike occurs at some other time?

 

[Dick Feldman]

Not to deflect your post but------
That Herschede clock is a special clock. From your posts, I assume you know little about the workings of clocks. That is not bad but the clock you have is not a good one to learn the basics on. It is a complicated machine and more complicated than most clocks. You can do great harm to an expensive clock movement by experimenting on this clock.
Having worked on many of these clocks, I can say that the most common problem with the movements is wear. In order to assure proper operation, one must be confident there is sufficient power to drive each train. Without that, any further action is for naught.
It sounds like your clock is exhibiting lack of power due to wear, which is common. Herschede stopped production near 1984 and the clock movement has had ample time to wear out, and more than once. Clock movements are machines and will wear like any machine. Until you assure yourself that there is sufficient power to each of the trains, you will be treating symptoms rather than the disease. I have not found a single Herschede clock in the last 30+ years that has not needed attention to solve wear. I have seen quite a few in that period and my success rate is at or near 100%.
My best advice is to find a COMPETENT repair person to solve your problem. I emphasize COMPETENT because there are plenty of repair places that claim to be competent but are not. The clock you have requires special skills and a run of the mill clean, oil and adjust clock repairman will only waste your time and money.
If you cannot justify the investment on that special clock, it might be time to trade down to a consumer level clock.
Best of luck,
Dick

 

[BB1]

Not to deflect your post but------
That Herschede clock is a special clock. From your posts, I assume you know little about the workings of clocks. That is not bad but the clock you have is not a good one to learn the basics on. It is a complicated machine and more complicated than most clocks. You can do great harm to an expensive clock movement by experimenting on this clock.
Having worked on many of these clocks, I can say that the most common problem with the movements is wear. In order to assure proper operation, one must be confident there is sufficient power to drive each train. Without that, any further action is for naught.
It sounds like your clock is exhibiting lack of power due to wear, which is common. Herschede stopped production near 1984 and the clock movement has had ample time to wear out, and more than once. Clock movements are machines and will wear like any machine. Until you assure yourself that there is sufficient power to each of the trains, you will be treating symptoms rather than the disease. I have not found a single Herschede clock in the last 30+ years that has not needed attention to solve wear. I have seen quite a few in that period and my success rate is at or near 100%.
My best advice is to find a COMPETENT repair person to solve your problem. I emphasize COMPETENT because there are plenty of repair places that claim to be competent but are not. The clock you have requires special skills and a run of the mill clean, oil and adjust clock repairman will only waste your time and money.
If you cannot justify the investment on that special clock, it might be time to trade down to a consumer level clock.
Best of luck,
Dick

 

[Peter John]

The strike rack tail could be jammed behind the snail on the center wheel. The time and chime appear to be working fine as the 2 weights are down together. If you could reach in where the strike rack is, give it a push towards the center of the movement. If it is jammed that may unjam it and it will clear itself. I don’t believe you have a major problem, just something that got stuck in the reset up. You can see the end of the strike rack in your 2nd photo. It is the steel part that looks like it has sawteeth on it.Peter

 

[Dick Feldman]

The strike rack tail could be jammed behind the snail on the center wheel. The time and chime appear to be working fine as the 2 weights are down together. If you could reach in where the strike rack is, give it a push towards the center of the movement. If it is jammed that may unjam it and it will clear itself. I don’t believe you have a major problem, just something that got stuck in the reset up. You can see the end of the strike rack in your 2nd photo. It is the steel part that looks like it has sawteeth on it.Peter

Maybe not the best advice. If the motion works are jammed, it likely happened because something was forced. To undo that, a professional would likely pull the dial to determine what is wrong. Removing the dial is normally not an easy thing to deal with.
Those clocks are generally "bullet proof" when it comes to owner operation.
One cannot do much to hurt them unless they are violated in some way.
"Un violating" will probably take some skill.
If one does not understand the normal chain of events, one cannot fix it.
Something like:
Normal labor rate: $30.00/hour
If you help the labor rate is: $45.00/hour
If you have worked on it the labor rate is: $65.00/hour
A novice working on a Herschede clock is not a good idea in my estimation.
JMHO
D

 

[Peter John]

?Did I say the motion works were jammed?

 

[Dick Feldman]

Regardless of what is jammed or if something is jammed.
I would not recommend a novice messing with it.
Not remotely a good candidate to learn on.

 

[BB1]

Hi folks-

Shutterbug - yes I have wound it up and let it run thru its full 7 day cycle a couple of times.

Dick Feldman - I am definitely not any kind of clock expert. This is an inherited piece and I am being very careful with it, and if unsure about something I don't even try it. I only have a few bits of care/handling/operation info from my dad that he passed on to me. In his course of owning it (~30 yrs) he had found 1 or 2 good clock repairman and used them 3 or so times when the clock wasn't running properly for some reason or another. But as they are now in a different part of the country I can't continue using them (and most of them were on the verge of retirement even back then). My dad was always leery if the repair man wanted to take the clockworks out of his house and back to their shop (now I really understand - cause you have to have extreme trust w/ the repair man you find, etc).

Peter - you mentioned "You can see the end of the strike rack in your 2nd photo. It is the steel part that looks like it has sawteeth on it" - I've reread this a few times but not able to follow - was it my post in 2021, or the post in 2022 - both had pictures.....I checked the 2nd in each but still not able to follow so can you please clarify (maybe by marking up the picture and sending it back)?

Last - I just found the below link when doing some web search and will share here in case anyone else finds it as neat as I did. It convinces me the clock is definitely a Herschede - it has some really interesting info that this guy seems to have scanned in from older Herschede clock manuals/etc. Nothing as old as 1907, but some back to the late 1920's. In one section (from 1975's manual) it even has some care/instructions that said when winding to wind only until the top of the weight is even w/ the top of the glass door (in my case the weight that is stuck is farther up than that). I also read in same 1975 manual that when re-shipping the clock they recommend to leave it vertical, not lay it horizontal "to keep chains or cables from slipping off sprockets" (in my case when the clock was moved from my father's house to mine, as I put in my original post - we had it laying horizontal in the van so perhaps that caused something to get loose).

Herschede and Revere: Mark Headrick's Horology Page

www.abbeyclock.com

Thanks all

 

[Peter John]

On the end of the rack at the lowest end in the circle, give that a slight nudge in toward the center and see if that frees things up. Don’t use extreme force but that’s where your problem is. If I were at your house I would have the clock striking. 2 minutes or less. That piece got jammed either in the move or resetup. Peter

 

[BB1]

Thanks Peter for taking time to post that. I am going to check it and few other things when have more time.