__on_the_verge

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20210719_180059.jpg

So, recently I obtained this 18th century Dutch Longcase clock by Gerrit Ter Vooren, C. 1760. I am very excited as this kind of clock is very rare, but its rarity also poses some difficulty in finding information.

It has complications for the moon phase, date and seconds. There is a ship mechanism/theatrical cutout below the dial which is surrounded by four hand painted angels. I really would like to know the story being depicted here, the meaning of the figures, etc. I've yet to find a clock on the internet with the same display, though I have found similar ones. There is also a pendulem door displaying what looks like a trophy cup below a curtain, and some flower and bird inlays. Id like to know the meaning behind these and if they are related to ships somehow.

IMG_20210717_184614_289.jpg

IMG_20210717_184614_357.jpg

20210717_171844.jpg

IMG_20210717_184614_427.jpg

20210717_180458.jpg

20210717_180510.jpg

When the hood is removed there is a label on the side which has been worn so much it is no longer fully legible. I'm not sure if these labels have the names of people who purchased the clocks, if they were put there by the casemaker, or if they have some other meaning.

Screenshot_20210717-204036_Gallery.jpg

One of the bells (there are two), which is used for the alarm, was detatched when we got this clock. It has since been re-attatched but it had some lettering inside it which is also difficult to read.

20210717_171810.jpg

I believe there used to be feet on the bottom and angel finials on the top based on all the other Dutch clocks i've seen but something must have happened to them at some point in this clock's life.

How rare were these clocks back in the 18th century? Were they always for sale or would you need to specially order one? How were these clocks made? How much did they cost?

If anybody has any information theyd like to share I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to read my post :) Out of curiosity does anybody have a similar clock to mine? I wonder how many are left in the world... 20210719_180228.jpg 20210719_180146.jpg
 

JTD

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When the hood is removed there is a label on the side which has been worn so much it is no longer fully legible. I'm not sure if these labels have the names of people who purchased the clocks, if they were put there by the casemaker, or if they have some other meaning.

Welcome to the board.

I cannot answer all your questions, but I can tell you about the label you have posted. It is a label from a transport company, the clock was shipped from Tilburg to Amsterdam at some time in its life.

You speak of 'labels' but have only posted a photo of one. Are there others?

You have a lovely clock.

JTD
 

zedric

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Beautiful clock, and I can se why you are happy with it. What moves in the “theatrical scene” when the pendulum swings? I assume the waves, and maybe the angel?

iknow more about English than Dutch clocks, but in England at this time clocks were made to order, and I expect the same would apply for Holland. I can’t say how rare they are, but they are certainly now common.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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View attachment 666420

So, recently I obtained this 18th century Dutch Longcase clock by Gerrit Ter Vooren, C. 1760. I am very excited as this kind of clock is very rare, but its rarity also poses some difficulty in finding information.

It has complications for the moon phase, date and seconds. There is a ship mechanism/theatrical cutout below the dial which is surrounded by four hand painted angels. I really would like to know the story being depicted here, the meaning of the figures, etc. I've yet to find a clock on the internet with the same display, though I have found similar ones. There is also a pendulem door displaying what looks like a trophy cup below a curtain, and some flower and bird inlays. Id like to know the meaning behind these and if they are related to ships somehow.

View attachment 666423

View attachment 666424

View attachment 666425

View attachment 666427

View attachment 666428

View attachment 666429

When the hood is removed there is a label on the side which has been worn so much it is no longer fully legible. I'm not sure if these labels have the names of people who purchased the clocks, if they were put there by the casemaker, or if they have some other meaning.

View attachment 666426
One of the bells (there are two), which is used for the alarm, was detatched when we got this clock. It has since been re-attatched but it had some lettering inside it which is also difficult to read.

View attachment 666430

I believe there used to be feet on the bottom and angel finials on the top based on all the other Dutch clocks i've seen but something must have happened to them at some point in this clock's life.

How rare were these clocks back in the 18th century? Were they always for sale or would you need to specially order one? How were these clocks made? How much did they cost?

If anybody has any information theyd like to share I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to read my post :) Out of curiosity does anybody have a similar clock to mine? I wonder how many are left in the world... View attachment 666421 View attachment 666422
Interesting clock.

As indicated in a previous response, label fragment has nothing to do with maker. Relatively modern.

That’s not a trophy cup. It’s a neoclassical urn. Similar decorative motif use in key escutcheon. Widely use decorative motif.

Clocks like this often had figural finials. Wonder if top of case altered. I will gladly defer to others on those points.

Still, quite the clock!!

Enjoy!

RM
 

__on_the_verge

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Jul 18, 2021
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Welcome to the board.

I cannot answer all your questions, but I can tell you about the label you have posted. It is a label from a transport company, the clock was shipped from Tilburg to Amsterdam at some time in its life.

You speak of 'labels' but have only posted a photo of one. Are there others?

You have a lovely clock.

JTD
Ah, I never considered that it might be related to transportation. Thanks so much for the info!

When I said 'labels' I was only talking about these kinds of labels in general. My clock only has one, sorry if that was confusing.
 

__on_the_verge

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Jul 18, 2021
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Beautiful clock, and I can se why you are happy with it. What moves in the “theatrical scene” when the pendulum swings? I assume the waves, and maybe the angel?

iknow more about English than Dutch clocks, but in England at this time clocks were made to order, and I expect the same would apply for Holland. I can’t say how rare they are, but they are certainly now common.
When the pendulum swings it moves the ships, waves, and the angel. There is also a fish when had fallen under the waves that I believe is supposed to move as well.

I didn't know that English clocks were made to order. It would make sense for Dutch ones to be as well. Thanks for sharing :)
 
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__on_the_verge

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Jul 18, 2021
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Interesting clock.

As indicated in a previous response, label fragment has nothing to do with maker. Relatively modern.

That’s not a trophy cup. It’s a neoclassical urn. Similar decorative motif use in key escutcheon. Widely use decorative motif.

Clocks like this often had figural finials. Wonder if top of case altered. I will gladly defer to others on those points.

Still, quite the clock!!

Enjoy!

RM
Yes, I think the finials and feet were removed at some point (unfortunately).

Wow, so thats what that is. I kind of figured it wasnt a trophy cup but it just looks like one. I'll have to do more research on neoclassical urns, thanks for sharing!
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Yes, I think the finials and feet were removed at some point (unfortunately).

Wow, so thats what that is. I kind of figured it wasnt a trophy cup but it just looks like one. I'll have to do more research on neoclassical urns, thanks for sharing!
Widely used decorative motif in Western decorative arts as inlay, finials, etc and so on.

For example, in America, flaming urn finials were used on many fine pieces of 18th century furniture of Philadelphia/PA origin. For example, here's the top of a Chippendale Philadelphia chest on chest ("high boy"; a term that would have been meaningless in the 18th century):

philadelphia highboy.jpg

Talk about over the top!

Also used in Boston/New England where 18th century furniture tended to a more restrained:

Boston Highboy.PNG

Note the flame is stylized as a cork screw shape.

Rhode Island, where some of the very finest 18th century American furniture was produced, also had a version of a flaming urn finial.

Sorry for high jacking your thread.

RM
 
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__on_the_verge

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Jul 18, 2021
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Widely used decorative motif in Western decorative arts as inlay, finials, etc and so on.

For example, in America, flaming urn finials were used on many fine pieces of 18th century furniture of Philadelphia/PA origin. For example, here's the top of a Chippendale Philadelphia chest on chest ("high boy"; a term that would have been meaningless in the 18th century):

View attachment 666533

Talk about over the top!

Also used in Boston/New England where 18th century furniture tended to a more restrained:

View attachment 666535

Note the flame is stylized as a cork screw shape.

Rhode Island, where some of the very finest 18th century American furniture was produced, also had a version of a flaming urn finial.

Sorry for high jacking your thread.

RM
No no, thank you for the information!

This is interesting, I have never seen a flaming urn decoration before Definetly makes much more sense than a trophy cup (LOL). Its cool that this clock includes a common theme from fine 18th century furniture, since, well, its a fine piece of 18th century furniture. Now I have more appreciation for this little ornament, and i'll probably notice any flaming urns that I come accross. Perhaps there was once a flaming urn piece on the top of this clock.
 

Jbrian

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I just went to look at all my clocks checking for flaming urns .. To no avail.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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No no, thank you for the information!

This is interesting, I have never seen a flaming urn decoration before Definetly makes much more sense than a trophy cup (LOL). Its cool that this clock includes a common theme from fine 18th century furniture, since, well, its a fine piece of 18th century furniture. Now I have more appreciation for this little ornament, and i'll probably notice any flaming urns that I come accross. Perhaps there was once a flaming urn piece on the top of this clock.
& that’s the point! Your clock is in context!

RM
 
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DeanT

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Have you trying googling pictures Dutch 18thC harbours to see if you can find the same or similar image? If you are lucky you might be able to identify the actual harbour in the picture.
 
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__on_the_verge

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Have you trying googling pictures Dutch 18thC harbours to see if you can find the same or similar image? If you are lucky you might be able to identify the actual harbour in the picture.
I have tried looking up other clocks like mine. Many of them have decrative ships, but none are exactly the same. I haven't looked for harbors specifically outside of clocks....but that is a great idea, I will have to try it. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

David 62

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On the top of the hood,is there a rectangular opening,or one that is covered by a board? Many of those clocks had pagoda tops that were too tall for modern ceilings and removed.
 
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__on_the_verge

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On the top of the hood,is there a rectangular opening,or one that is covered by a board? Many of those clocks had pagoda tops that were too tall for modern ceilings and removed.
There is just a board (which has huge crack lol). I'm pretty sure there used to be a pagoda top but it is gone. I have wondered why someone would remove it, but the ceiling's height being too short totally makes sense. I think there also used to be taller feet on the bottom. I would love to be able to restore these things but I have no idea where I would be able to find them.
20210807_122320.jpg
 

f.webster

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I recently restored a clock like yours. Here are a few images that might help you consider what is missing from the top of your bonnet.

Case Top.jpg Dutch Music Clock.jpg
 

David 62

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I recently restored a clock like yours. Here are a few images that might help you consider what is missing from the top of your bonnet.

View attachment 666670 View attachment 666671
Was your top complete,or did you have to restore or fabricate any part?
I recently restored a clock like yours. Here are a few images that might help you consider what is missing from the top of your bonnet.

View attachment 666670 View attachment 666671
Was the top of your clock complete,or did you have to restore part(s)?
 

f.webster

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The top of the clock was complete; yet, it was too loose to stand on its own. If you are looking for "tops" for this clock, check the MART. There is a gentleman who has re-cast these figures. I ran into him at the Southern Ohio Regional.
 

David 62

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The top of the clock was complete; yet, it was too loose to stand on its own. If you are looking for "tops" for this clock, check the MART. There is a gentleman who has re-cast these figures. I ran into him at the Southern Ohio Regional.
Who could make a pagoda top for him?
 

__on_the_verge

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The top of the clock was complete; yet, it was too loose to stand on its own. If you are looking for "tops" for this clock, check the MART. There is a gentleman who has re-cast these figures. I ran into him at the Southern Ohio Regional.
Oh wow, I will have to check it out. Thanks so much for the info
 

jasperarend

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with regard to the label:
if you can't translate there is also an english version ( bit shorter)
1760 seems me to correct , Gerrit ter Vooren was very active, but these clocks were typically only for the elite so there are not so many


A top similar to the one of the clock of mr webster would suit very well although his clock is older ( before 1745)
 

jasperarend

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with respect to what harbor : sometimes they just made fantasy paintings while sometimes you clearly recognize the city. In this case it is remarkable that there are many rather small (fishing) ships and also the depicted city is a small town. In addition also the church might give a clue due to it s atypical form. for sure there was no flame on top as this is very rare There might have a vase or urn but this is also unlikely. Mr Webster top and the Atlas and angels were most likely for that period in Dutch clock making ( 1760-1790) Having a better look at the base of the clock it is rather 1780 than 1760
 

jasperarend

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Did you ever find somebody to make a pagoda top?
yes, i had a very similar problem and it was reconstructed very nicely. although there are quite a number of the dutch longcase clocks in the US, most of them are still in the Netherlands and consequently most experience will be found here. I can give you the name of my furniture maker but he lives in the Netherlands, however transport should not be an issue.
 

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