1883 model Waltham freaks ( Private Labels)

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Jon Hanson, Jul 24, 2003.

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  1. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Recently on fhwatch.com:

    Single sunk dial signed: S. & T. Child, Phila.

    Movement signed: S. & T. Child, Phila.

    5239902, nickel, 15 jewels, LS/Htg, no case.
     
  2. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Buster & Locke, Independence, Oregon.

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    4635101, frosted nickel, 15 jewels, LS/Htg, in a Keystone Watch Case Co., J Boss, Guaranteed 20 Years, triple hinge, hunting case.
     
  3. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: J.G. Graves, Waltham, Mass.

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    8192647, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, no case.
     
  4. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: J.G. Graves, Waltham, Mass.

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    13197315, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, in a typical English, sterling silver, hallmarked key wind case.
     
  5. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Fattorini & Sons, Bradford

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    6899147, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, no case.
     
  6. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Fattorini & Sons, Bradford

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    5488629, nickel, 11 jewels, KS/KW, no case.
     
  7. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk plain dial, no name

    Movement signed: H.A. Comstock., Indianapolis, Ind.

    3066776, nickel, 15 jewels, PS/OF, no case.
     
  8. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Recently on EBay:

    Single sunk dial signed: The Workman, Am. Waltham Watch Co.

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    11444719, nickel, 7 jewels, PS/OF, in a Philadelphia Watch Case Co., silverode, screw back and bezel case.
     
  9. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: G. Binion, 525 Fulton, St., Brooklyn

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    7628639, gilt, 7 jewels, LS/Htg, no case.
     
  10. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: A.W.Co., Waltham

    Movement signed: H.R. Woodward

    4711821, gilt damaskeen, 15 jewels, PS/OF, in a gold filled, triple hinge, open face case.
     
  11. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Harry Marx, Rumford Falls, ME.

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    10075670, nickel, 17 jewels, PS/OF, in an A.W.W.Co., Waltham, Century, silveroid, swing ring case.
     
  12. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: H.T. Woodroofe & Co., Woodstock, Ont.

    Movement signed: H.T. Woodroofe & Co., Woodstock, Ont.

    5011694, gilt, 15 jewels, PS/OF, no case.
     
  13. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: American Waltham W. Co.

    Movement signed: A.E. Barnsey, Sanford, Me.

    4086791, gilt, 15 jewels, PS/OF, no case.
     
  14. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Hucklen-Broich, Special Waltham (in arc over seconds bit)

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    18462234, nickel, 7 jewels, PS/OF, in a Philadelphia Watch Case Co., silverode, screw back and bezel case.
     
  15. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: W.F. Newhall, Lynn.

    Movement signed: W.F. Newell, Lynn, Mass.

    7787323, nickel, 17 jewels, PS/OF, no case.
     
  16. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: J.G. Graves, Waltham, Mass.

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    8709224, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, in a typical English, sterling silver, hallmarked key wind case.
     
  17. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Recently on EBay:

    Single sunk dial signed: American Waltham W. Co.

    Movement signed: Buster & Locke, Independence, Oregon.

    4203541, gilt, 11 jewels, LS/Htg, in a gold filled, triple hinge, hunting case.
     
  18. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: 16651665, Fattorini & Sons Ltd, Bradford

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    16651665, nickel, 15 jewels, PS/PW, in an English, sterling silver, hallmarked, triple hinge, open face case. Cuvette is engraved 16651665 and back of case engraved L & Y.
     
  19. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Fattorini & Sons, Bradford

    Movement signed: Fattorini., Waltham, Mass.

    4140744, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, in a typical English, sterling silver, hallmarked key wind case.
     
  20. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Fattorini & Sons, Bradford

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    5488425, nickel, 11 jewels, KS/KW, in an English, sterling silver, hallmarked, triple hinge, open face case.
     
  21. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Watch & Chronometer Manufacturers, Fattorini & Sons, Westgate, Bradford

    Movement signed: American Waltham Watch Co.

    13667855, nickel, 7 jewels, PS/PW, no case.
     
  22. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: Fattorini & Sons, Bradford

    Movement signed: Waltham, Mass.

    4595221, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, in an English, sterling silver, hallmarked, triple hinge, key wind case.
     
  23. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: H.W. Curtis, Knoxville Tenn.

    Movement signed: H.W. Curtis, Knoxville, Tenn.

    3307682, frosted nickel, 15 jewels, PS/OF, no case.
     
  24. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: J. Kendall Smith, Newark, N.J.

    Movement signed: J. Kendall Smith, Newark, N.J.

    3094223, frosted nickel, 15 jewels, PS/OF, in a silveroid, screw back and bezel case.
     
  25. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: American Waltham Watch Company

    Movement signed: Chas. E. Rhodes, Bay City, Mich.

    3334239, frosted nickel, 15 jewels, LS/Htg, in a silveroid, triple hinge, open face, case.
     
  26. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Single sunk dial signed: J.B. Mennie, Gateshead

    Movement signed: Am. Watch Co., Waltham, Mass.

    6899851, gilt, 7 jewels, KS/KW, in an English, sterling silver, hallmarked, triple hinge, key wind case.
     
  27. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Aug 25, 2000
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    Steven,

    Huge amount of data, but what will be done with it? Just a thought, but maybe an encyclopedia article wherein the various private labels are broken down by grade, etc.? Maybe an analysis of when they were most commonly made? Which dealers (by country, city, whatever) made significant orders? When were names on dial but not mvt most common?

    '83s aren't my main area, so I ain't gonna analyze and organize this data into something more useful, but I would find an analysis of it interesting, nevertheless.

    Cheers,

    Greg
     
  28. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    Greg

    If somebody wants to take on the project of building an encyclopedia article and keep busy for quite a while they can. There is plenty of information in the 62 pages of this thread. Right now I have other projects that keep me busy.
     
  29. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    You collect '83s and spend considerable time compiling info from ebay on them. If you're not willing to do anything with the data, then, with all due respect, why should anyone else?
     
  30. geno55

    geno55 Registered User
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    I really think the last post was out of line and added absolutely nothing to the thread. Geno
     
  31. John Cote

    John Cote Director
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    Greg,

    With all due respect, it seems to me that Steve, simply by keeping this, the longest running thread on the board, going has done a lot to further the knowledge on and compile data about this subject. Meanwhile he has written articles and done other web projects. We all do what interests us and some of us share and contribute like Steve. I congratulate him and all of the other contributors to this thread.
     
  32. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    Just to say, I can see both sides of this little disagreement, having myself been on both sides of similar little disagreements in the past (outside of horology.) Yes, it would indeed be fantastic if someone organised all this data and cross-referenced it against other sources and types of data, etc... But hey, we're all good at thinking up tasks for "someone else" to do.
    (A lot of us are also surprisingly good at thinking up new & exciting tasks for ourselves to work on, just as long as "someone else" is still paying for our time.)
    Perhaps a way forward would be for an interested NAWCC member to propose a motion for debate at the next AGM - "Allocate x amount of funds or x amount of staff time to compiling the model 1883 data into a more database-like format". Run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.
     
  33. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Can you show where I wrote that he hasn't done a lot? Anywhere?

    I made a serious suggestion that it would be helpful (to collectors) to put all his data in the thread to some use and that he, being an '83 guy, was the obvious person to do so. He declined. No big deal. He has other things to do. We all do.
     
  34. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Senior Administrator
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    Guys, let's take this thread back on topic.
     
  35. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    Photo: 6 Waltham 18s PLs.
    From top left reading across - 4176932 5488629 4912074 From bottom left - 9992786 2271252 11038407
    Some have variants on "Fattorini" or "Fattorini & Sons" on the movements.
    Some have finished up needing a much bigger key (e.g. a 4) to wind them than to set them (e.g. a 7.) I wonder whether they started out like that, whether something has worn down over the years, or whether it's just down to what spare parts someone had available when they were doing a repair/restoration.
    PM me if there's any you want to know about in more detail.

    265291.jpg
     
  36. mikeh

    mikeh Registered User

    Mar 5, 2001
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    Re: 1883 model Waltham freaks.................

    4084538, of, ps, gilt dsmk, marked H.R. Woodward, ADJUSTED, radial dial marked "American / Waltham / W. Co.", recased.
     
  37. J Hall

    J Hall New Member

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    Anybody have any pictures of Waltham Model 83 signed Geo W. Cooley?
     
  38. J Hall

    J Hall New Member

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    Geo W. Cooley, Sidney NY
     
  39. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    #939 musicguy, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  40. Bildeborg

    Bildeborg Registered User

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    I don't know if this is of use to anyone but I recently bought a Waltham Am. W. Co size 18 1883 model dating from 1897. It is in a Sterling case hallmarked Birmingham. The Roman numeral dial is marked 'Fattorini and Sons, Bradford'. Bradford in Yorkshire that is. The serial number is 5457188 and it's a 15 jewelled movement. The movement is a swing out and has to be seen in the flesh to fully appreciate the quality, it really is stunning and looks as though it left the factory yesterday never mind 121 years ago.

    This watch keeps amazing time given its age losing a couple of seconds a day.

    Interestingly Fattorini and Sons (still in business to this day) made the soccer F. A. Cup and the Rugby League Cup.

    Regards,

    Jay.
     
  41. roadking

    roadking Registered User

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    There was a jewlry in mexico city owned by the dienner family. they imported watches and usualy sold them with their own name MONTIN with INVAR movements. I guess they went out of bussiness around 1910 because of the mexican revolution. Probably they also sold american brands
     
  42. yellow_sub

    yellow_sub Registered User
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    #3842971, "Charles S. Hart", Model No.15 15j, dial marked "American / Waltham / W. Co.", Gilt
    #10247645 DIAL ONLY "Bennett's Preston". Not 100% if this was the original dial, this is how it was when purchased.
     
  43. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    I came across another "Langdon Davies & Co, Birmingham", whilst sorting out some of my collection. According to the dial it is a "Tempometer". According to the movement, it is "made at" Waltham Mass, "Solely for" them.
    Runs lovely. Waltham Pocket Watch Information: Serial Number 1205536 (Grade Home Watch Co.)

    DSCN9098.JPG DSCN9093.JPG
     
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  44. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

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    Here is a unique piece I picked up recently that I have not seen another quite the same. It is a Canadian PL for R.Hemsley of Montreal who did order quite elaborate PL pieces from various manufacturers.

    Not only does it have the PL but this watch was adverstising excessively that it was built to be Non Magnetic, the dial and and movement say it all. I have got to say I love the dial and the movement is definitely not quite standard in PL text placement. It has the correct non mag balance and hairspring. Comes from a very short run of 20 watches which were a modest 7 Jewel Grade 1 but all non mag hunters.

    Also what is interesting is that it comes in its original 4 ounce coin silver case that is marked specifically from Charles Stark from Toronto (not too far away) which is very interesting as he had his own extensive PL watches from many US and Swiss manufacturers. I can't say I have seen another Charles Stark marked case but easy to miss.
    Has anyone else seen another watch the same as this?

    IMG_2272.JPG IMG_2276.JPG IMG_2278.JPG IMG_2280.JPG
     
  45. mikeh

    mikeh Registered User

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    That watch fits the title of this old thread perfectly because it is certainly a freak. I've never see one marked like that either, especially with the placement of the serial number and non-mag marking. And a killer dial too. Fantastic find!
     
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  46. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

    Oct 30, 2005
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    Thanks Mike, I agree with you. I have seen one or two similar dials from Waltham that other people have had but not the same and the bolts were not radiating from the centre Post. A pretty cool watch for a 7 jewel.
     
  47. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    H. A. Prentice, Boston Serial number 2510190 with Franklin on the movement

    I'm not sure if this model 1883 would be a PL Freak but I have looked around and have only seen
    one reference to Franklin on a Waltham movement. This is a fairly early model 1883 I believe from
    circa 1884-1885.



    20200423_135648.jpg 20200423_135844.jpg
    20200423_140545.jpg 20200423_140657.jpg



    Rob
     
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  48. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Senior Administrator
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    3814308 - 'J. H. Washburn, Natick, Mass.'

    Waltham3814308Dial.jpg Waltham3814308Mvmt.jpg
     
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