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1863 vs. 1866 Appleton Tracy 18s 15 j movement

robert jeansonne

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Hello everyone:
I recently inherited an 1857 model 15 Jewel Appleton Tracy and Co. Model Made in 1863. I took it to a knowledgeable watch repairman here in Texas and he took it apart and said it had too many issues to repair. I have found a junker 1866 model A T & Co. with a good balance that I was going to purchase so I can repair my heirloom.....
Does anybody know if the internals cross over??
Thanks so much
Robert
 

musicguy

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. I took it to a knowledgeable watch repairman here in Texas and he took it apart and said it had too many issues to repair.
Hi Robert,
What did he say was wrong with it?
Can you post some photographs of the watch(movement)?
It just seems strange to hear that from a watchmaker unless
the watch is really damaged or missing parts.
I would get a second opinion.


Rob
 

robert jeansonne

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I will try and get a photo on here this evening. This watch had showed up on ebay a couple of months ago. It had a presentation on the cuvette. What drew my attention was the person it was presented to had the same last name of my wife's maiden name before I married her. The last name is Linsday. After looking up the gentleman the watch was presented to, a "John Linsday", I found he was in tbe 8th Indiana calvary. I asked my wife if she had any people fron Indiana, and she said she had a GGrandma who lived in Kokomo, Indiana.
I got on Family Search and low and behold, John Linsday was from Kokomo and was the GUncle to my wife's great grandmother! I ended up getting the watch from the ebay seller. She said she had not much interest from the public about it, so she sold it to me.
Belonging to my wife's GGGUncle, I would like to get it fixed. Somehow, this watch ended up in an estate sale in East Texas, about 50 miles from where I live.
I took it to Abel Watch repair here in Rowlett, Texas. Chris had it about a month and contacted me earlier this week. He opened it up and said "there was too much wrong with it", but didn't elaborate on what was wrong with it. Maybe he is just too busy to deal with it. I don't know.
I am due to get it back from him next week. Chris has repaired 3 other watches for me, and is a good watch repairman. I will get more info on what is wrong with it next week.
 

musicguy

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Great story behind the watch!

Rob
 

Keith R...

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1864 AT &Co. and an 1867 AT&C0. First pic a Tucker regulator was added in mid 1870.
So only reg setup changed.

Pic # 1 is SN# 98514 (1864).
Pic # 2 is SN# 311609 (1867).
Pic # 3 is SN# 546697 (1871).

Keith R...

103_8346 (800x600).jpg 103_7615 (800x600).jpg 100_1144 (800x600).jpg
 
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Clint Geller

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I will try and get a photo on here this evening. This watch had showed up on ebay a couple of months ago. It had a presentation on the cuvette. What drew my attention was the person it was presented to had the same last name of my wife's maiden name before I married her. The last name is Linsday. After looking up the gentleman the watch was presented to, a "John Linsday", I found he was in tbe 8th Indiana calvary. I asked my wife if she had any people fron Indiana, and she said she had a GGrandma who lived in Kokomo, Indiana.
I got on Family Search and low and behold, John Linsday was from Kokomo and was the GUncle to my wife's great grandmother! I ended up getting the watch from the ebay seller. She said she had not much interest from the public about it, so she sold it to me.
Belonging to my wife's GGGUncle, I would like to get it fixed. Somehow, this watch ended up in an estate sale in East Texas, about 50 miles from where I live.
I took it to Abel Watch repair here in Rowlett, Texas. Chris had it about a month and contacted me earlier this week. He opened it up and said "there was too much wrong with it", but didn't elaborate on what was wrong with it. Maybe he is just too busy to deal with it. I don't know.
I am due to get it back from him next week. Chris has repaired 3 other watches for me, and is a good watch repairman. I will get more info on what is wrong with it next week.
Wow, Robert. I sure hope you can get this watch fixed. A family heirloom with a Civil War provenance is awfully special, and that you actually found it on ebay is pretty stupendous. I hope that several steel parts aren't badly rusted and/or broken. That would be really tough to fix.
 

robert jeansonne

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s-l400 (2).jpg 20190504_102835.jpg 20190504_102942.jpg 20190504_103015.jpg Here is a couple of photos of the watch case and movement. I would love to get this fixed. Any suggestions for a top notch CW repairman would be greatly appreciated....
The watch was given to John Linsday by a fairly famous Chaplain in the 8th Indiana by the name of A S Lakin (Chaplain of the Command) who was to be the 1st Alabama president after the U. of Alabama was re built in 1867. The KKK ran him out of town. There was a nationally published and famous cartoon showing Mr. Lakin hanging from a tree with a horse labeled KKK walking away from the scene. John Linsday was the "Worshipful Master" of the Jones Lodge and a private in the 8th Indiana Cavalry (the Jones Military Lodge was attached to the 39th Indiana infrantry and later became the 8th Indiana Cavalry). John Linsday was released in 1864 due to disability. Not for sure what happened to him. The Army of the Cumberland is mentioned in the inscription....

20190504_102835.jpg 20190504_102942.jpg 20190504_103015.jpg
 
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robert jeansonne

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Here is a couple of photos of the warch case and movement. I would love to get this fixed. Any suggestions for a top notch CW repairman would be greatly appreciated....
The watch was given to John Linsday be a fairly famous chaplain in the 8th Indiana by the name of A S Lakin who was to be the 1st Alabama president after the U. of Alabama was re built in 1867. The KKK ran him out of town. There was a nationally published and famous cartoon showing Mr. Lakin hanging from a tree with a horse labeled KKK walking away from the scene. John Linsday was the "Worshipful master" of the 39h Jones lodge that was attached to the 8th Indiana Infrantry. The Army of the Cumberland is mentioned in the inscription....

View attachment 531429 View attachment 531430 View attachment 531431
Here's a photo of the movement. I haven't got it back from Chris Abel of Abel watch repair yet...

s-l400 (2).jpg
 
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Clint Geller

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Robert, That's a great inscription, especially since Lakin is mentioned too. For an educator to be run out of town by the KKK, that's like having a badge of honor.

Perhaps it's just the photograph, but the plates of your watch look like they might have been polished at some point. Original gilding usually isn't so specular, although the engraving looks crisp. The metal parts I can see (screws, regulator, and hairspring stud) don't appear rusted, so that's good news.
 

robert jeansonne

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Clint
I do believe the plates were polished at some time. The regulator is bent, I believe the (4th wheel?)where the second hands stem comes out is broken loose. I think the balance is good. May have other issues internally. Missing hands as well. I already replaced the crystaI. I knew this would be a project, but willing to spend the cash to get it put back in top shape. My best bet is to get a well preserved movement from this era to repair it with. Hate to do that, but this is a historical piece. I have never seen a watch presented to the top member of a mason's lodge from the civil war. Very unique piece. Presentation watches are easily 100 times harder to come by than a presentation sword or firearm. Since it's in my wife's family, I'm determined to get it repaired. Amazing what can end at an estate sale. I think the lady got it for under 50 bucks....
 
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ben_hutcherson

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I was a bit skeptical at first as to whether or not the oversprung balance was correct, but per Ron Price's data the AT&Co grade transitioned to this well before the s/n block where this movement was made.

If the staff is broken or damaged, oversprung '57 staffs are not terribly easy to find in my experience. With that said, it's a simple staff that a good watchmaker shouldn't have an issue making.

The only thing obvious I see that might have to be "scavenged" from another movement is the winding eustaceon, but another early AT&Co wouldn't be my preferred source of a donor for that part(unless I found one that was otherwise completely trashed).

I'd be looking for a second opinion on this one....
 
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Clint Geller

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I do believe the plates were polished at some time. The regulator is bent, I believe the (4th wheel?)where the second hands stem comes out is broken loose. I think the balance is good. May have other issues internally. Missing hands as well. I already replaced the crystaI. I knew this would be a project, but willing to spend the cash to get it put back in top shape. My best bet is to get a well preserved movement from this era to repair it with. Hate to do that, but this is a historical piece. I have never seen a watch presented to the top member of a mason's lodge from the civil war. Very unique piece. Presentation watches are easily 100 times harder to come by than a presentation sword or firearm. Since it's in my wife's family, I'm determined to get it repaired. Amazing what can end at an estate sale. I think the lady got it for under 50 bucks....
Well, I have never looked much for presentation swords, but I have never even seen one Confederate presentation watch, so your statement is certainly true for Confederate artifacts.

Watches were especially popular presentation gifts at the conclusion of a recipient’s military service, when he was transitioning back to civilian life, when a sword would have been useless. That explains why you don’t see Confederate presentation watches. Even if new watches had been readily available in the South near the end of the war, which they mostly weren’t, there wasn’t a lot of back slapping and mutual congratulation going on in the Confederate army then. As for Union presentation watches, there are 14 of them in the upcoming NAWCC Museum exhibit.
 
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Keith R...

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Robert, nice watch. Your movement is missing the key guard (cup). I'd say
one off any AT&Co movements from the 1860's would fit.

See first pic in post #6, on the 1864 AT&Co movement.

Keith R...
 

OldSchool1959

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I will try and get a photo on here this evening. This watch had showed up on ebay a couple of months ago. It had a presentation on the cuvette. What drew my attention was the person it was presented to had the same last name of my wife's maiden name before I married her. The last name is Linsday. After looking up the gentleman the watch was presented to, a "John Linsday", I found he was in tbe 8th Indiana calvary. I asked my wife if she had any people fron Indiana, and she said she had a GGrandma who lived in Kokomo, Indiana.
I got on Family Search and low and behold, John Linsday was from Kokomo and was the GUncle to my wife's great grandmother! I ended up getting the watch from the ebay seller. She said she had not much interest from the public about it, so she sold it to me.
Belonging to my wife's GGGUncle, I would like to get it fixed. Somehow, this watch ended up in an estate sale in East Texas, about 50 miles from where I live.
I took it to Abel Watch repair here in Rowlett, Texas. Chris had it about a month and contacted me earlier this week. He opened it up and said "there was too much wrong with it", but didn't elaborate on what was wrong with it. Maybe he is just too busy to deal with it. I don't know.
I am due to get it back from him next week. Chris has repaired 3 other watches for me, and is a good watch repairman. I will get more info on what is wrong with it next week.
What a fantastic story. How lucky can you get? Amazing!
 
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