1859 Appleton Tracy model 57

[model1857guy]

I had posted about this back in May, it was among a large lot of 1857s I acquired from a friend.

Nice 16 jewel, Appleton Tracy grade.
According to the database this serial, No.21,518 should have been produced around October of 1859. Now I know the dial is not correct for this grade, I'm assuming it would have been an Appleton Tracy marked dial and not yet an American Watch Co dial, correct?

I'd also have expected to perhaps see this in an AR&Co marked case. Not sure of this case manufacturer, its only marked Warranted Coin Silver on both front and back covers. Any idea on that? No extra case screw marks so maybe a second generation case for this movement? Probably not but hard to say.

Runs really well and keeps perfect time. Though I would like find a correct dial for it.

 

[grtnev]

Very nice watch!

Interesting, that the inscription, if I read it correctly, says 1870.

Richard

 

[model1857guy]

Very nice watch!

Interesting, that the inscription, if I read it correctly, says 1870.

Richard

Yeah, my guess is, if it's original to the watch then perhaps a father giving it to his son?

 

[PapaLouies]

1859 was the end of A.T. & Co. and the beginning of the American Watch Co., so we do not know which company made your watch.
Therefore any dial may be correct!
Regards, P/L

 

[model1857guy]

1859 was the end of A.T. & Co. and the beginning of the American Watch Co., so we do not know which company made your watch.
Therefore any dial may be correct!
Regards, P/L

The only other example I have to go off of is serial number 21,694 just a little ways past mine. That one has a straight line Appleton Tracy Co. dial

 

[PapaLouies]

The hands look original and the second hand fits the second chapter precisely.
This is a beautiful hand painted dial and I think original!
The minute hand should be pointed at XII.
Regards, P/L

 

[model1857guy]

The second hand i added as it was missing. Its off a P.S. Bartlett 16s model 1908 in had on my parts box.

I have my doubts on the originalityof the dial, I've never seen an early Appleton Tracy grade with a blank dial, none of my early ones have blank dials. The blank dials were reserved for some of the earlier Bartlett, Ellery, and all the Home grades

I do need to straighten the minute hand its bent but all my tools are back home in Massachusetts.

The hands look original and the second hand fits the second chapter precisely.
This is a beautiful hand painted dial and I think original!
The minute hand should be pointed at XII.
Regards, P/L

 

[John Pavlik]

I agree the dial needs the larger Roman numerals to be that early ... the case dated by the inscription could be original..it generally does not have features seen on cases from 1859, ie the pendant pusher and the overall bulk ...... It is a nice movement....

 

[richiec]

Looking at Ron Price's "Origins of the Waltham Model 57" does indeed show a straight-line Appleton, Tracy and Co name on at least the late 1858 dial with taller, thinner roman numerals and non-sunk seconds register. Best I can do on this subject.

 

[John Pavlik]

This dial is a lot earlier, but these are the size Roman numerals that are usually seen on earlier Mdl 57’s.

 

[model1857guy]

Well the mystery of the dial currently in it is solved. The dial was loose, missing all the pins in the dial feet.

Pulled the dial to make some pins and right under the dial in ink stamp in all capital letters "SWISS MADE DIAL"

So definitely on the search for an Appleton Tracy marked dial now.

 

[model1857guy]

Been digging through the sales archives over on J&H, putting together a picture reference library on my computer for quick comparisons.

I think the case might actually be original to the movement.

There is a P.S. Bartlett in the 19,000 range also 1859 production and an Appleton Tracy in the 15,000 range that are housed in nearly identical 3oz cases with identical pendants, same engine turned pattern with similar engraved details, and case serial number on the same location on the case ring. They also have the exact same "Warranted Coin Silver" stamp on the front and back covers. The case serial numbers in them are also approximately 10,000-11,000 less than the movement serial numbers, not that its any real indication, but perhaps all together might suggest the cases from the same maker in the same time frame.

 

[Clint Geller]

If I had seen only the case, I would have guessed it was from the mid-1860's or later, based on the style and heft of it. That guess would have been consistent with the date inscribed on the dust cover. The inscription certainly could be later than the case itself, but given that the dial is clearly not original to the movement, that increases the chances that neither is the case. I take no joy in dispensing negative assessments, but this movement and case combination just hits me wrong. A good recase would not look so suspiciously like one.

 

[vintageguy]

Looking at Ron Price's "Origins of the Waltham Model 57" does indeed show a straight-line Appleton, Tracy and Co name on at least the late 1858 dial with taller, thinner roman numerals and non-sunk seconds register. Best I can do on this subject.

Here's a link to the Appleton Tracy addendum to Ron's Model 57 monologue, showing a lot of technical detail (including dial info) from observed examples.

http://plads.com/m57/monograph/tables/at.pdf

 

[model1857guy]

Well still on the search for a dial but stumbled on to this earlier Appleton Tracy dial on feeBay for less than a common model 57 dial. Still not correct but it at least looks better than the blank Home grade dial that was on it while the search continues.

From what I'm finding examples in this 21,000 range seem to all be straight line Appleton Tracy & Co dials.