1806 London pair watch - huge balance jewel

pocket2100

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Picked up a very nice London watch that has a beautifully large balance jewel with a windowed dust cover. The window glass is missing, so will have to try and track down something to replace that. Anyone know what the balance jewel is made out of?

It also appears to have a very attractive silver plate on it. It could be nickel or something else, but I don't think they had anything back in those years that had the same silvery shine as silver.

I cannot make out who the maker is, so if someone recognizes it, please let me know. And any other information on it, I would love to find out and write up some documentation to stay with the watch.

re_20210622_002710.jpg re_20210622_002828.jpg re_20210622_003108.jpg re_20210622_003132.jpg re_20210622_003211.jpg re_20210622_003317.jpg re_20210622_003557.jpg re_20210622_003630.jpg re_20210622_003739.jpg re_20210622_003830.jpg re_20210622_003845.jpg
 
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agemo

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Hi,
The brand of the case manufacturer.
WL.jpeg

Amicalement GG
 

gmorse

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Hi pocket2100,

The cases are most probably by Linsley, as agemo has suggested, but the movement is not English. The movement design is continental, the silver cock, the hinged cap, the square pillars at this date and the one-piece case bolt and spring are indicators. That large endstone is probably rock crystal and you can see that the hole underneath isn't jewelled, and indeed the design of the steel coqueret holding the endstone is a continental feature.

I can't see 'London' in the signature anywhere, is it on the cap?

How this movement came to be fitted in English cases will probably remain a mystery.

Regards,

Graham
 
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agemo

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How this movement came to be fitted in English cases will probably remain a mystery.
Hi,
There are strong chances that this movement is French with this cock empire which were in silver and copper, period 1804-1814.
Here is a plate of French cocks, one of which is quite similar.
Coqs.jpg Coq2.jpeg

Amicalement GG
 

pocket2100

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Thanks for the information. I had assumed London due to the case... interesting that it likely came from France. I'll try a little more to read the name on the movement, but it's not very readable as it's placed where other components are.
 

John Matthews

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Interesting - so does this mean that we have a French made movement that was finished for the Swedish market housed in English pair cases, that has found its way to America?

As the comparison with the Tardy illustration of Empire balance cocks provided by agemo gives a date range of 1804-10

Cock comparison.JPG

and the hallmark on the box is London1806/07, it does beg the question when did the movement and cases come together?

It might be inferred that it was significantly later. The similar dates could be just coincidence caused by the restriction of matching size of the movement to available cases. Perhaps there was a desire to house the movement in a case of of approximately the same age - but why select an English case?

There just may be another reason. I have been looking at watches from this period that were attempting to imitate, what they were not. I have been surprised how many non-English movements are housed in English cases, apparently (I have been working from photographs) that have genuine contemporaneous English hallmarks. It is almost as if there was a trade in new, or almost new English cases, at this time, and that they were being used to house European movements.

John
 
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pocket2100

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I seem to read "Sent" and "Fort" in Swedish Slow and Fast.
Regards enrico
I believe you are correct. When I zoom in, those do appear to be the words. I assume there may be more info under the dial?
 

pocket2100

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Interesting - so does this mean that we have a French made movement that was finished for the Swedish market housed in English pair cases, that has found its way to America?
Well, I got this along with several other watches from a Canadian auction. Assuming some of those French speaking Canadians must have had some relatives pass this watch down through the generations.

There just may be another reason. I have been looking at watches from this period that were attempting to imitate, what they were not. I have been surprised how many non-English movements are housed in English cases, apparently (I have been working from photographs) that have genuine contemporaneous English hallmarks. It is almost as if there was a trade in new, or almost new English cases, at this time, and that they were being used to house European movements.
This idea does make sense. If I were an English case maker, and I either made too many cases, or the demand dried up for some reason, then I would likely be shopping around to find who would buy my leftover stock. France seems like an odd place to sell anything English as there have always been such a rivalry between these two countries. More likely that some pioneering middleman was buying parts between these two countries and selling them in other locations such as Sweden.

Attaching a better image of the shop paper that was in the case. If it also is correct to the case/movement, then it seems odd that the set would have been sold from this London location. Any idea if these papers were slipped into cases before getting sent off for other purposes?

Very interesting!

re_20210622_004239.jpg
 

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