17th century English Lantern clock

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by P.Hageman, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    This will be my next project, an 17th century Lantern clock. With the help of novicetimekeeper who was so kind to bid for me on the auction, I can call me the owner now. From as far as I now know, this clock is made in the early 80s circa 1684 and has been converted from verge to anchor early in live. Nice strongly tapered arbors and no collets (perhaps very small steel ones) I am very happy the original alarm disc and lovely hour hand is still in place. Need to make new frets, alarmwork an doors. Waiting to get it home now :) ( permission of the auctionhouse to use the pics)

    1fe2b3d4-afe6-4f4c-8afc-a9bd00b180df.jpg 318b15c3-6d11-4aaa-b066-a9bd00b192e8.jpg 738656f0-7941-4999-923c-a9b9011d4e89.jpg c14d7b72-bd8b-438b-9b96-a9bd00b1a1ab.jpg
     
  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    8,982
    427
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There were more pics I think?

    It's a good buy, and in very safe hands to return to verge. I'm sure you will be very pleased with it.
     
  3. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Oh here are the other ones :)

    97d142db-6631-42bc-b944-a9bd00b19cad.jpg 41cacbcc-c8a4-413d-9823-a9bd00b19834.jpg 67f8200a-780c-4afb-91dc-a9bd00b1a81d.jpg
     
  4. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    3,710
    351
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Very nice! Do you plan to restore it back to verge?

    Uhralt
     
  5. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Uhralt, yes I think of reconverting it back. I am not 100% sure yet because you would always have tell tales it once had an anchor escapement due to the fact that the topplate has now a larger cutout where the anchor is situated. My first aim is to make the frets and engrave the front one. I already made a pneumatic handengraver :)
     
  6. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    3,710
    351
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What is that? Can you show a picture? I'm always interested to learn something new.

    Uhralt
     
  7. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

    Mar 22, 2009
    959
    81
    28
    Male
    Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Nice clock....needs some work but its a goodie.

    The hammer on the right. Are you sure it was originally pendulum. I did look at bidding for this but a friend stopped me from bidding ;)
     
  8. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    8,982
    427
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:

    That's one thing I would like to learn, how do you tell from the holes remaining in the top whether it was verge pendulum or balance wheel?

    The position of the hammer tells you that it wasn't originally a Huygens continuous drive, but on a hook and spike alarm there are two more potential reasons for that. it makes it more balanced on the wall to have one weight each side, and it means you can just wind the time train if you want a bit of quiet time.

    There must, presumably, be a layout difference between verge pendulum and balance wheel.
     
  9. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    #9 P.Hageman, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Yes there is a difference in the layout. As you can see (not as good) just above the anchor arbor the are two holes in the movement bar. There are no signs there are unused holes lower then these. So there was originally the potence for the lower pivot for the verge wheel. Where now the anchor is, was then a contrate wheel. If it was a balancewheel clock, the potence has to be further downward for the lower pivot of the pallet arbor. I also first thought it was a balancewheel originally, but I don't think so anymore. Will know for sure when I have it home tomorrow. Enclosed a picture where you can see the lower potence on a balance wheel lantern by the same maker.

    @ Dean, I think I know this friend :) I would not try to compete you! Thanks anyway!

    collets.jpg
     
  10. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Another interesting question is: where was the alarmwheel mounted:???:? No signs of holes in the bottomplate as far as I could see on the pictures.
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    8,982
    427
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I couldn't see that either, options are back inside or outside or side, outside. I can't see anywhere in the bottom plate for the rope so assume that was outside.
     
  12. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Now I have the clock home, I had some closer examination on the clock and I now think the clock originally was a balance wheel, then converted to verge and then to anchor. On the picture you can see where the lower potence for the pallet arbor for the balance once has been. The upper unused holes are where the verge potence has been I think sofar.

    potence.JPG
     
  13. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    8,982
    427
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Balance wheel certainly helps explain where the alarm went, and also why it was removed.
     
  14. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

    Mar 22, 2009
    959
    81
    28
    Male
    Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There is a reference to Francis Stamper and a photo of a lantern by him in White.

    He owned land in Pennsylvania, USA although White believed he never made any clocks in the USA.
    Amongst many bequests of shares, money and land in England (See Loomes 1), Stamper left his daughter Elizabeth "all my lands in Pensilvania which I bought of Willian Penn...." To his wife and daughters he left "all my shares in the New Pensilvania Company...." (Parish of St Edmund the King, Lombard Street: proved 1698/99)

    The dial in White is very similar and the hand is identical.

    I'll have a better look at the construction but I always believed it was originally balance wheel.
     
  15. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

    Jan 2, 2015
    339
    27
    28
    London
    Country Flag:
    Interesting that someone went to the trouble of converting it to anchor but didn't rebuild the motion work to allow a minute hand to be added, which the increased accuracy would have allowed. I have a lantern clock of a similar age which was originally balance wheel but is now anchor. I have kept the anchor escapement but replaced the two hand motion work with a single hour hand and ratch.
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    8,982
    427
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think the conversion was early, it gave the additional accuracy and run time without the additional resolution of a minute hand. However single handed clocks were still being made right up into the beginning of the 19th century, not everybody needed that level of resolution.
     
  17. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

    Jan 2, 2015
    339
    27
    28
    London
    Country Flag:
    #17 NigelW, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
    Interesting. My conversion may have been a bit later then - possibly 19th C? One of the wheels used in the replaced going train of mine looks like a standard longcase great wheel, complete with a half round on one of the crossings where the ratchet click would be (but which of course is not needed on a lantern clock).
     
  18. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    I am very happy they did the conversions instead of trowing it into the litter box! This way, these early clocks we can still enjoy :)
     
  19. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

    Mar 22, 2009
    959
    81
    28
    Male
    Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes that’s a much better result. Even better it’s now in the hands of someone who will preserve and restore it for future generations
     

Share This Page