17th century English Lantern clock

P.Hageman

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This will be my next project, an 17th century Lantern clock. With the help of novicetimekeeper who was so kind to bid for me on the auction, I can call me the owner now. From as far as I now know, this clock is made in the early 80s circa 1684 and has been converted from verge to anchor early in live. Nice strongly tapered arbors and no collets (perhaps very small steel ones) I am very happy the original alarm disc and lovely hour hand is still in place. Need to make new frets, alarmwork an doors. Waiting to get it home now :) ( permission of the auctionhouse to use the pics)

1fe2b3d4-afe6-4f4c-8afc-a9bd00b180df.jpg 318b15c3-6d11-4aaa-b066-a9bd00b192e8.jpg 738656f0-7941-4999-923c-a9b9011d4e89.jpg c14d7b72-bd8b-438b-9b96-a9bd00b1a1ab.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

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There were more pics I think?

It's a good buy, and in very safe hands to return to verge. I'm sure you will be very pleased with it.
 

Uhralt

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Very nice! Do you plan to restore it back to verge?

Uhralt
 

P.Hageman

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Uhralt, yes I think of reconverting it back. I am not 100% sure yet because you would always have tell tales it once had an anchor escapement due to the fact that the topplate has now a larger cutout where the anchor is situated. My first aim is to make the frets and engrave the front one. I already made a pneumatic handengraver :)
 

DeanT

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Nice clock....needs some work but its a goodie.

The hammer on the right. Are you sure it was originally pendulum. I did look at bidding for this but a friend stopped me from bidding ;)
 

novicetimekeeper

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Nice clock....needs some work but its a goodie.

The hammer on the right. Are you sure it was originally pendulum. I did look at bidding for this but a friend stopped me from bidding ;)

That's one thing I would like to learn, how do you tell from the holes remaining in the top whether it was verge pendulum or balance wheel?

The position of the hammer tells you that it wasn't originally a Huygens continuous drive, but on a hook and spike alarm there are two more potential reasons for that. it makes it more balanced on the wall to have one weight each side, and it means you can just wind the time train if you want a bit of quiet time.

There must, presumably, be a layout difference between verge pendulum and balance wheel.
 

P.Hageman

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That's one thing I would like to learn, how do you tell from the holes remaining in the top whether it was verge pendulum or balance wheel?

The position of the hammer tells you that it wasn't originally a Huygens continuous drive, but on a hook and spike alarm there are two more potential reasons for that. it makes it more balanced on the wall to have one weight each side, and it means you can just wind the time train if you want a bit of quiet time.

There must, presumably, be a layout difference between verge pendulum and balance wheel.
Yes there is a difference in the layout. As you can see (not as good) just above the anchor arbor the are two holes in the movement bar. There are no signs there are unused holes lower then these. So there was originally the potence for the lower pivot for the verge wheel. Where now the anchor is, was then a contrate wheel. If it was a balancewheel clock, the potence has to be further downward for the lower pivot of the pallet arbor. I also first thought it was a balancewheel originally, but I don't think so anymore. Will know for sure when I have it home tomorrow. Enclosed a picture where you can see the lower potence on a balance wheel lantern by the same maker.

@ Dean, I think I know this friend :) I would not try to compete you! Thanks anyway!

collets.jpg
 
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P.Hageman

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Another interesting question is: where was the alarmwheel mounted:???:? No signs of holes in the bottomplate as far as I could see on the pictures.
 

novicetimekeeper

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Another interesting question is: where was the alarmwheel mounted:???:? No signs of holes in the bottomplate as far as I could see on the pictures.
I couldn't see that either, options are back inside or outside or side, outside. I can't see anywhere in the bottom plate for the rope so assume that was outside.
 

P.Hageman

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Now I have the clock home, I had some closer examination on the clock and I now think the clock originally was a balance wheel, then converted to verge and then to anchor. On the picture you can see where the lower potence for the pallet arbor for the balance once has been. The upper unused holes are where the verge potence has been I think sofar.

potence.JPG
 

novicetimekeeper

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Balance wheel certainly helps explain where the alarm went, and also why it was removed.
 

DeanT

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There is a reference to Francis Stamper and a photo of a lantern by him in White.

He owned land in Pennsylvania, USA although White believed he never made any clocks in the USA.
Amongst many bequests of shares, money and land in England (See Loomes 1), Stamper left his daughter Elizabeth "all my lands in Pensilvania which I bought of Willian Penn...." To his wife and daughters he left "all my shares in the New Pensilvania Company...." (Parish of St Edmund the King, Lombard Street: proved 1698/99)

The dial in White is very similar and the hand is identical.

I'll have a better look at the construction but I always believed it was originally balance wheel.
 

NigelW

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Interesting that someone went to the trouble of converting it to anchor but didn't rebuild the motion work to allow a minute hand to be added, which the increased accuracy would have allowed. I have a lantern clock of a similar age which was originally balance wheel but is now anchor. I have kept the anchor escapement but replaced the two hand motion work with a single hour hand and ratch.
 

novicetimekeeper

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Interesting that someone went to the trouble of converting it to anchor but didn't rebuild the motion work to allow a minute hand to be added, which the increased accuracy would have allowed. I have a lantern clock of a similar age which was originally balance wheel but is now anchor. I have kept the anchor escapement but replaced the two hand motion work with a single hour hand and ratch.
I think the conversion was early, it gave the additional accuracy and run time without the additional resolution of a minute hand. However single handed clocks were still being made right up into the beginning of the 19th century, not everybody needed that level of resolution.
 

NigelW

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Interesting. My conversion may have been a bit later then - possibly 19th C? One of the wheels used in the replaced going train of mine looks like a standard longcase great wheel, complete with a half round on one of the crossings where the ratchet click would be (but which of course is not needed on a lantern clock).
 
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P.Hageman

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I am very happy they did the conversions instead of trowing it into the litter box! This way, these early clocks we can still enjoy :)
 

DeanT

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I am very happy they did the conversions instead of trowing it into the litter box! This way, these early clocks we can still enjoy :)
Yes that’s a much better result. Even better it’s now in the hands of someone who will preserve and restore it for future generations
 

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