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Great book. In the future it will get much use in my house.Just taken delivery of this magnificent tome. Lots of high res colour photos of clocks by Gretton, a London maker working in the last part of the 17th and early 18th C. Not too many of under dial work unfortunately, but enough to give me some more source material to work on in refining my design of replacement parts.
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What are you using as your source of brass?Woodturning is not my thing but I have managed to clean up my contrate wheel blank. It's about twice as thick as it needs to be which is probably being overcautious but I want to do some work hardening by hammering the cast brass so I am erring on the side of caution.
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This chap sells yellow brass for clock restoration and will make bespoke castings, so I was thinking of using him. I have had an initial phone conversation and he said he could make castings either from my models or from wax copies. Brass Foundry CastingsWhat are you using as your source of brass?
How are you intending to work harden the contrate blank? Which way do you hammer, how much and how hard?
Cheers
This is going to increase the diameter, and possibly stretch the crossings, so I hope you've left enough thickness to cater for this.For the work hardening I was thinking of hammering the ring from the outside over a stake of similar diameter to the inside. A fair whack is what I intend to give it (can't really be more precise).
The book has inspired me to gather together in one document pictures and descriptions of all the clocks I can find by Etherington. With so much material now on line it's surprising how far you can get without leaving the house!
I have made the models quite a bit thicker and deeper than needed but until I try I won't really know how it will turn out. My tutor is convinced that they would originally have been cast.Hi Nigel,
This is going to increase the diameter, and possibly stretch the crossings, so I hope you've left enough thickness to cater for this.
Regards,
Graham
Jim I guess this depends on the casting method. I was going to make copies of each part in casting wax using two part silicone rubber moulds. Silicone rubber being flexible, tapers should not be necessary but clearly the two parts of the mould need to be planned in such a way that any piercing (such as in the crossings) does not result in the part getting stuck. If the metal caster then uses the lost wax process, getting the wax pattern out is not an issue since it just melts and burns away and the mould is then broken up to remove the casting.An aside, my brief foray into making casting patterns always required "draft" on my patterns. I guess how your patterns are used by the mold-making process might allow no draft, but the several ways I have made molds or cast parts have required it — just wondering what I am overlooking.
- Draft
The pattern needs to be removed from each mold it shapes without breaking or distorting it. The draft is a taper that facilitates pattern removal. The exact angle of the taper depends on the complexity of the pattern, the mold type, and surface type.
Interesting that Etherington used so many different movement configurations. Each is completely bespoke. Obviously it would have been easier to make them similar allowing for some productionisation. He must have received different commissions from his clients which were all made individually.
The bob in the black and white photo has engraved circle so I assume it was turned on a lathe.
Yeah made for individual commissions but longcase clocks are pretty standard movements and dials. Apart from choice of Marquetry, walnut or ebonized case...There’s little variety. These bracket clock movements are completely different.I would think that as with longcase at the time (and for most of the 18th century) all clocks were made to order as individual commissions.
Is it possible that Etherington, like a number of others, outsourced some of his work? That would make it easy to understand why there are different movement layouts used, which could be the style of his outworkers rather than his style? It seems to have been the case that some of the early makers did this.Interesting that Etherington used so many different movement configurations. Each is completely bespoke. Obviously it would have been easier to make them similar allowing for some productionisation. He must have received different commissions from his clients which were all made individually.
The bob in the black and white photo has engraved circle so I assume it was turned on a lathe.
It's always been the way here, very well known in pocket watch circles. There was a parts and assemblies supply chain right from the beginning especially for London makers. It probably explains why early provincial bracket clocks can be so whacky.Is it possible that Etherington, like a number of others, outsourced some of his work? That would make it easy to understand why there are different movement layouts used, which could be the style of his outworkers rather than his style? It seems to have been the case that some of the early makers did this.
In the case of watches they seem to have worked in small batches of perhaps four where presumably there would have been some conformity. The difference between the Rolls Royce approach and the Ford approach from the beginning of car manufacture. Ford wanted reproduceability, so precision was required. Rolls just wanted accuracy, so parts were hand finished to fit perfectly but were not then able to be switched to another vehicle. When Rolls were having trouble producing Rolls Royce Merlins in sufficient quantities in WWII both Ford and Packard were approached. Ford wouldn't do it, Packard did take it on but they redrew all the components to meet their higher precision standards.We are so used to the idea of batch and mass production these days that it's hard to get into the mindset of the early makers. In my Monday afternoon clock session there are two distinct tribes: the "engineers" and the "horologists". The first group focuses on and worries about measurement and precision but the second group is only really interested in whether part A fits with part B and considers measurement to be secondary (I would put myself in the second group). The engineering approach is essential for modern manufacturing methods but the second is, I believe, more efficient when it comes to bespoke work. With some standardisation of components such as castings, it doesn't make much difference to the amount of work needed if each hand built clock is slightly different.
This seems the most practical way to make these wheels. W.J. Gazeley describes cutting a wheel from a flat disc.I still think they would have been cut from round disc castings that could be planished first to harden them. They are so shallow there seems to be not much gained by casting the profile and it makes them very difficult to work harden.
Yes indeed, the cutting pressures in pinions would be too much for a fly cutter....This should be good enough for small brass wheels, but not steel pinions...
That’s a great book, I assumed Nigel probably had it but if not definitely worth acquiring.Hi Nigel,
Yes indeed, the cutting pressures in pinions would be too much for a fly cutter.
A good book, (if you haven't already got it), is 'Wheel and Pinion Cutting in Horology' by J. Malcolm Wild, ISBN 1 86126 245 0. Should be less than £20 to buy here.
Regards,
Graham
Wow....such a shame that clock isn't restored and on display!Highly productive day in Oxford today.
First a visit to the Ashmolean Museum to inspect their Etherington table clock which is currently in store and poorly catalogued. It's not in the best shape but it must have been a real beauty in its heyday; small size (6 inch square dial) in a tortoiseshell case with exceptionally fine mounts. Dial spandrels are later and the mechanism has been altered quite a bit, but by how much it was not really possibly to tell without taking it out of its case.
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Then (after delivering a food parcel to and buying brunch for my son who is studying there) I paid a visit to Wim van Klaveren, a restorer, who had an Etherington movement to show me. He is going to send me pics but I took a few of the alarm, which is the part I am having most difficulty with in finishing the design.
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That's sneaky that cock to provide the pivot for the alarm crownwheel so it doesn't interfere with the verge.Highly productive day in Oxford today.
First a visit to the Ashmolean Museum to inspect their Etherington table clock which is currently in store and poorly catalogued. It's not in the best shape but it must have been a real beauty in its heyday; small size (6 inch square dial) in a tortoiseshell case with exceptionally fine mounts. Dial spandrels are later and the mechanism has been altered quite a bit, but by how much it was not really possibly to tell without taking it out of its case.
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Then (after delivering a food parcel to and buying brunch for my son who is studying there) I paid a visit to Wim van Klaveren, a restorer, who had an Etherington movement to show me. He is going to send me pics but I took a few of the alarm, which is the part I am having most difficulty with in finishing the design.
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The cock is screwed onto the inside of the front plate just underneath the pillar. The support for the bottom pivot of the alarm pallet arbor is riveted to the plate and a small piece of bell metal is dovetailed in to provide a hard bearing surface.That's sneaky that cock to provide the pivot for the alarm crownwheel so it doesn't interfere with the verge.
Both mechanisms were adopted in pocket watches as well, called potences, (or however you want to spell it, there were a lot of variations).The cock is screwed onto the inside of the front plate just underneath the pillar. The support for the bottom pivot of the alarm pallet arbor is riveted to the plate and a small piece of bell metal is dovetailed in to provide a hard bearing surface.
yes, that's what I'm saying is sneaky. When I first looked I couldn't see what he had done. In lantern clocks it is usually done with a bridge riveted to either the inside of the back plate or to the side, this approach is also found in longcase and hooded alarms which makes sense as they were often made by former lantern clock makers.The cock is screwed onto the inside of the front plate just underneath the pillar. The support for the bottom pivot of the alarm pallet arbor is riveted to the plate and a small piece of bell metal is dovetailed in to provide a hard bearing surface.
Is that a good book? I was thinking of buying it as I have seen a few of the clocks before. Are all the clocks on the website in the book?My pretext for going to visit Mr van Klaveren was to collect my copy of this book, which he edited:
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Its 420 pages, 1,000 illustrations and accompanying on-line database are modestly described by the author as "an introductory study" into the engraving of backplates. It is magnificent.
I have only just started reading it but it seems very well written - better than the Gretton book - and it is very beautifully produced. Not all the clocks on the website are illustrated in the book but most if not all are referenced. I suspect this will become a classic reference work.Is that a good book? I was thinking of buying it as I have seen a few of the clocks before. Are all the clocks on the website in the book?
Thanks
Dean
As your tutor said, 12 teeth pinion looks unusual. The lower leaf count looks more in proportion.Nine leaf pinion now cut but nether it nor the arbor is finished or polished. But comparison to the 12 leaf the cuts look a bit shallow. I didn't have access to a nine leaf cutter so I think I used an eight leaf one instead. I think I may need to modify it by filing but I won't know for sure until I have cut a wheel, so I have now switched my attention to making a suitably shaped wheel cutter.
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This takes either 8mm or E11 collets, (in separate spindles), and also a drilling quill, all with their own integral DC motors.What does it use for spindle collets?
Thanks for the spindle size Graham. Retired from Xerox huh? I spent 16 years with them, back in the good old days, starting in 1968.Hi Jim,
This takes either 8mm or E11 collets, (in separate spindles), and also a drilling quill, all with their own integral DC motors.
Regards,
Graham