Ball & Co- Hamilton

[BILL KAPP]

Hi guys and gals.

Add 28205 Ball & Co ORRS Hamilton movement to the lists. It has an incorrrect Ball Watch Co dial.

I know I have said this before but to reiterate:

BaLL & Co ORRS movements are rarer than JN / Private Labels and Brotherhood watches.

In the 8701 -8800 2, possibly 3 are B&C 5 are PL
13001-13400 9 are B&C 20 are PL/Brotherhood
14001- 15000 15 are B&C 19 are PL/Brotherhood
28001-29000 3 are B&C 14 are PL/Brotherhood
42001-43000 3 are B&C 19 are PL/Brotherhood


So of 110 Reported watches in these runs, 32/33 Are Ball and CO ORRS and 77 are JN/PL/Brotherhood.

About 27 percent.

I am sure more will turn up but just as pollsters use small samples to predict results, I would expect the percentages to remain nearly the same.

The Brotherhood and JN watches will always be romanced and highly sought after but I think their desirability has made most overlook how scarce the B&C's really are.

Happy hunting,

Bill

[Fred Hansen]

Would the brotherhood and jeweler contract Ball watches be more likely to be photographed and recorded in books and bulletins of years past than the early Official RR Standard marked Ball watches were?

I am sure more will turn up but just as pollsters use small samples to predict results, I would expect the percentages to remain nearly the same.

If the watches photographed in past books and bulletins do make up a sizable part of the current recordings I think there is a strong likelihood then of some skew to this data. While the overall picture may not change drastically as more "unbiased" recordings come in, I expect it may indeed change somewhat to reflect a higher ratio of the Official RR Standard marking.

In following Illinois Watch Co. private-labels I have serial numbers noted for almost three times as many 26 jewel "Pennsylvania Special" as I have for the 17 jewel "Washington Watch Co., Potomac". But I believe between these watches the 26J Pennsylvania Special has the lower actual production by quite a bit, and the larger number of recordings in my notes is likely due to the much higher collector attention the 26J Pennsylvania gets and the tendency this creates for existing examples to be shown/photographed/recorded.

Fred
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[BILL KAPP]

Fred,

Could be, and one of the reasons for posting here is to see if I can get collectors to post the serial numbers of unreported examples.

Keep in mind that any Ball has always been "desirable" and that a lot of the serial numbers in current data bases come from old dealer lists that could be considered "impartial".

One of the advantages of the internet is how quickly we can impart new information.

We have been running similar ball threads for quite a while now and not a whole lot of new examples have turned up yet.

I am postulating that the percentages reflect Ball's early marketing technique. I think that he initially was attempting to reach a larger market by involving his subordinates. You will note that by the 42000 run, PL's virtualy dissapear. l

It will be fun to run percentage comparrisons every so often to see how my premise holds up.

Happy hunting,

Bill
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[Greg Frauenhoff]

I probably have posted and/or passed along these #s a long time ago to Kent or somebody, and many are probably from pictures in old Ehrhardt publications, but just in case there are some different #s here here are some early Ball (non-JN and non-Brotherhood) s/ns from my files.

13337, 14194, 14304, 14551, 14625, 14737, 14761, 14961, 28046, 28264, 28290, 28307, 42876.

[BILL KAPP]

Thanks Greg,

Those 4 in the 28k range and the one in the 42K range are new to me. I have added them to the list found at

http://williamkapp.tripod.com/id25.htm

Take a look at the list and see if you have any brotherhood or PL's to add.

Thanks again,

Bill

[Jeff Hess]

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi

we added scores of them here...

[Jeff Hess]

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi

we added scores of them here...

[BILL KAPP]

Jeff,

Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but that link just takes me to the present days bulletin board..

I believe that I compiled and included in my list the serial numbers in the earlier ball and co threads from the last few months. I was hoping someone could review the list as I compiled it and let me know if I had missed any.

Thanks,

bill

[Jeff Hess]

sorry

i added probaly a hundred or so numbers from my own collection and from all of roys research that i bought (many of roys and ine were unpublished) to the list that i posted.

did you pick all of those up?

thanks.

jeff

[BILL KAPP]

Jeff,

I believe so, but Greg surprised me with some additional numbers and I wondered if I had missed some others.

I will try to find those old threads and proof read my list today.

Thanks,
Bill