Railroad Grade or Railroad Approved?

Which is a real Railroad watch? or can both of them be considered a RR watch? when it comes to these types of watches, I'm very careful to say.. wow I have one..because of there current value. But how can you be certain.. I found this in the "Complete Price Guide to Watches 2004" page 28? Can anyone give me a quick lesson on RR watches.

James

[Kent]

James:

Many people have come to call any large old pocket watch, especially one with an engraving of a locomotive on the back of the case, a railroad watch. This usage is frequently is incorrect. The term "Railroad Watch" was used by the watch and jewelry trade (and is now used by collectors) to refer those high grade watches that met the requirements of railroad time service rules and standards. The railroad industry, and the railroaders themselves, referred to the watches as "Standard Watches," literally, those watches that met the railroads' time service standards.

Although the person who originally owned a watch may have worked for a railroad, it is not necessarily what could properly be called a "Railroad Watch." The use of a standard watch was only required of a portion of railroad employes (correct spelling, used in many older railroad documents), usually those directly involved in running the trains, or controlling, or affecting, the operation of trains. Other employes carried whatever watches they liked. Typical lists of those required to carry a standard watch appear in an 1892 report of Time Inspection on the Illinois Central Railroad and as Standard Time Rule No. 2 in a 1901 Edition of Canadian Pacific Railway General, Train, and Interlocking Rules. A later list of Burlington Route employes required to carry a standard watch is shown in these 1949 CB&Q Rules. The Union Pacific RR website has concise explanations of Past and Present Railroad Job Descriptions

To learn more about railroad time service, time inspection and railroad standard watches, see ”Just What Is A Railroad Watch?” On the Pocket Horology, NAWCC Chapter 174 Website. However, please keep in mind that information that became available since the above was written indicates that hunting-case watches were not specifically prohibited from railroad time service, at least, not as early as 1906-1908.

"Just what is a RR Watch" Great Article!!! I copied this out of it..
Fig. 23: The 16S, OF, LS Waltham Riverside grade was a popular standard watch, in spite, or perhaps because, of only being 19J. S/N 13,007,249 is an example of one that is only marked "Adjusted."

The word "Standard" is refering to the RR Watch? correct? So with that in mind. The pic beside this Paragraph is a picture is the same as the one I'm posting..So, If I read everthing right this should be a RR watch..let me know if I'm on the right track..

James

[Jim Michaels]

James,
To make it simple I usually tell people that any watch that was approved for RR service is a RR watch. I was a Southern Pacific watch inspector back in the early 1970's. For that line, at that time, from what I remember the watch had to be 16 size, lever set, open face, regular numerals, at least 21 jewels and had to keep time to 30 seconds a week. Each line had it's own set of regulations, many had the same. Keep in mind that some watches early on, that were accepted then, later would not qualify for service. So are these watches RR watches? I say yes they were because at one time they did qualify for use.
Jim

[Kent]

James:

Somewhere along the way you missed the point that only 18-size and 16-size (and Illinois 17-size) pocket watches were accepted for railraod time service. The Colonial Series (of which your Riverside is one) is a bit smaller and fails to meet this criteria.

Sorry,
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Wow so much to learn about RR watches... but really fascinating stuff.. I see how someone could just study the RR watches only and be totally busy with just one type of watch. So I noticed on the Database that is said Size-Col, I see where you are getting that from.. is there somewhere a chart for the different names to compare to the sizes.. If I had something like that .. I would not have to ask so many questions..

James

oh just forgot... So the Watch I have would be a "Railroad Grade" or is the size still play into effect on that....

[Kent]

Originally Posted by DADSTIMESHOP

oh just forgot... So the Watch I have would be a "Railroad Grade" or is the size still play into effect on that....

If your watch had a 16-size movement (although it looks like a 16-size movment, the Colonial Series was a 12-size movement) and lever-set (although an argument could be made for a pendant-set version), it would have met the requirements for railroad time service at the time it was built.

In fact, if you look at the 1906 the Ball Time Service list of watches in fig. 6 of the article Just What Is A Railroad Watch?, you'll see the 16-size Riverside, 19-jewel watch listed on lines 2 & 3.


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[Kent]

Originally Posted by DADSTIMESHOP

... is there somewhere a chart for the different names to compare to the sizes.. If I had something like that .. I would not have to ask so many questions ...

Well, you can use the data bases at the NAWCC Information Storage website. Or, you can get a copy of the book “Waltham Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide,” Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (A new edition may still be in print).

That sort of information is also available in the book “Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 24,” C. Shugart, T. Engle and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 2004 (a new edition comes out each year in February. It ought to be up to No. 27 this year. This book is available at libraries, most major bookstores and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop)