Illinois grade 539 ... 19 jewel

[Fred Hansen]

An interesting watch here, Illinois serial #3869230 ...

[Fred Hansen]

If this watch is looked up in Russ Snyder's Illinois database, this serial number shows as being the last watch made in the last run of grade 539 movements at serials 3869201-3869230.

This is where it gets strange ... the Illinois grade 539 is known as a 21 jewel, 5 position, bridge model movement signed "Illini Extra". But this watch is quite different being a 19 jewel, 3/4 plate, 5 position movement with no Illini marking.

Any thoughts or comments on the watch would be appreciated, and I would be especially interested to here the details of any other similar movements that have been seen or of any other watches in this 3869201-3869230 serial number range.

Fred
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[Jim Carroll]

Fred,
That's a very strange model, if you look at Meggers serial numbers for that run, 19 jewels is crossed out and replaced with 21 Jewels. What a great find, If the movement is a size 13 it could be classed as a 2nd model.


Jim carroll
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[Tom McIntyre]

Fred,

This grade 437 is another of the mis-corrections in Meggers' records. It was the first "Illini" I bought based on the note in the book. I asked Bill about it after I bought it and he said things were pretty hectic at the time the final corrections were being made prior to publication. I think Bill would have liked a bit more time to clean things up but Roy had the publication all set up to go, so go it did.

[Fred Hansen]

Jim - I will measure the dial plate when I get a chance and post back here with the details.

Tom - Interesting watch! I see the run your watch is from is noted as split production in Russ's database and that there is an image captured of an Illini from that serial range.

Fred
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[Jerry Treiman]

To me Fred's watch bears some characteristics of the ExtraThin 2nd model (Illini) such as the balance cock and regulator, adjustment marking and serial number location, but otherwise I would surmise that this run is the first of the 3rd model that Jim Carroll has been documenting. There have been no Illini grade 539 examples reported from this last run of 30 numbers and I suspect that is an error - they are probably like this one instead. It may be the precursor to the 19j ExtraThin (3rd model) A.Lincoln. Looking at the production data this movement precedes the aluminum-plate 3rd model grade 525 by only 20 numbers and the first 2nd model grade 528 by 70 numbers. Some experimentation was definitely going on at Illinois at this time.

[Jerry Treiman]

Regarding Tom's grade 437 - this is from a run of 400 of that model (3,650,201-600). It was preceded by 100 of the grade 539 Illini Extra (the photos Russ shows). I sent Russ a correction to this a while ago so either you have an older database or he hasn't gotten to the correction yet.

[Jim Carroll]

Jerry,
If the movement is a size 12 I believe it is a prototype for the 19 jewel grade 527 A Lincoln,
Just as the aluminium size 12 movement 3869250-3869300 was the original grade 525 Marquis/ Marquis Autocrat. Model.

Jim Carroll

[Fred Hansen]

I received an excellent email on this watch yesterday which also suggested the similarities of it to the grade 527.

Do any of the grade 527 have friction set jewels or the simple regulator, or are any marked with the same factory marking as this watch?

Fred
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[rschussel]

Fred
I had sent a note to yesterday as I could not log on to the new site.
Your movement looks like the 12size 19j grade 527 A Linclon. The first 19j Abe Lincoln had a serial number of 4018501 . Whether your movement is a prototype or part of a short run it is an interesting curiousity.

Bob