eBay Ham Ball potential problem

Isn't this just a 17 jewel Model 999? The serial number doesn't occur in a run of 938's. Wouldn't this sort of be just a Ball Co. version of a Model 936?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll...item=940436183

Since a lot of NAWCC members are occupied with traveling and the convention, perhaps he thinks he can sneak one through.

Isn't this just a 17 jewel Model 999? The serial number doesn't occur in a run of 938's. Wouldn't this sort of be just a Ball Co. version of a Model 936?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll...item=940436183

Since a lot of NAWCC members are occupied with traveling and the convention, perhaps he thinks he can sneak one through.

[terry hall]

I share your opinion and concerns.

The example posted in the Bulletin article is specific to that run of movements.

Has there ever been a correlation to a "standard" grade [936,924] to the "ball 999" grade? I remember reading that at some point Ball purchased movement finished to the adjusted stage of production and finished the movements in Cleveland?
[how bout it Buzz]

I await a response from the seller to an email I sent him.

[Steven Mercer]

Terry

This is one seller that isn't upset that we will be dicussing his watch on this message board. He has taken your comments word for word and added them as a selling point.

Steve

I see a very conventional "Ball-Hamilton 999" which bears a serial number 118,215 that fits very comfortably in the serial number run of 118,001-119,000 that was produced from 1900 through 1902 according to Hamilton records.

Contrary to the auction listing, it is not at all unusual for a Ball-Hamilton to not bear a marking for positions. I find that on my 21-jewel number 170,704 which is a cotemorary of the movement under discussion.

The barrel plate is marked as we might associate with an earlier watch, granted.

For example, in my collection I have 17-jewel number 13,050 which says... "Ball & Co. Cleveland."... on the barrel cover. Above that it says "Trade Mark B of L F and Standard."

In the listing there is reference to the BULLETIN article on page 352, and the seller tries to say his watch is the same. The seller goes on about the markings, and all he proves is that his BARREL COVER is marked like that on an earlier watch

This is no different than the way this seller refers to his case and the fact that his is built by the same company that also built Ball-Marked cases. BUT his is NOT such a case!

I would point out the obvious... that is the fact his BARREL COVER is unusual to be on a movement of that era, BUT it is held on with TWO LITTLE SCREWS, and could have easily been changed at some point in the last CENTURY or so.

The seller oddly refers to his..."Ford pickup truck"...well I'll tell you after having considerable knowledge of the automobile industry, crash repairs often result in your vehicle being repaired with parts associated with an earlier or later model year. Proper fit from the same make is really all that matters.

This could EASILY be a replacement cover, and in the picture it appears to be a bit more highly polished than the rest of the movement. Wouldn't it be interesting to look underneath that cover?

[terry hall]

Well, it did stir up them hornets...[now in N.O.]

His reply via email was cordial.

I am still of opinion the serial number list will show movement is not from a run of 938 grade watches.

When did the signature change from Ball & Co to Ball Watch Co on the 18 size?

[John Cote]

I know it is just a little thing (sort of) but in all his flowery description, he doesn't mention that the minute hand is a (morning glory) replacement. Where are you going to get the right one to match the pierced hour hand.

------------------
JohnCote
President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC
Member Chapter 149 (Member #105)
http://www.interstatetime.com

[terry hall]

Just as a matter of reference,
there were other movements in the serial number run [118,001-119000] that were also marked Ball & Co.

This run also contained Brotherhood marked movments.

Hey Terry,

Next this guy will quote you, claiming that he has a Brotherhood movement! How's it feel to be such a noted authority?

I say he has nothing really all that out of the ordinary, and it may easily be a replacement or simplly switched barrel cover.

For all his hype, he may have outsmarted himself. One of his top bidders is "redvose(-1)" who evidently is bidding for fun rather than to buy! Check it out!


Lindell

[terry hall]

Noted Authority!!! HA!

Well, lets hope he don't quote me there.

For the record...
The run [118001-119000] is mixed with differently marked movements. This is information from a database of sighted examples. Townsend also wrote of this run in a 1986 paper of serial numbers. He designated the grade as 999.

The reason I mentioned the examples in the database was to let it be known that other movements in the run were marked BALL & CO.

And yes it has a wrong hand.... replacements are difficult, at best, to find.

Yeah go -1!!!!