The Time it takes to clean a watch & prices

[Greg Crockett]

Now and then, people will post questions regarding the price of repairs. I'm of the impression that the cost should have something to do with the level of skill required and the length of time it takes to do the job. For this reason, I'm wondering if those of us who repair watches might give an idea of how long it takes to do common repairs. This post is to estimate cleaning time. Our hypothetical watch is a 16 size, stem-wind, lever set, open face 17 jewel, bridge type, common American made watch. Lets say it is otherwise in excellent condition but needs to be cleaned because it has been sitting around for 50 years without use. The works look rather dry. The case needs only to have dust blown out of it.

For each level, the dial is removed. Please fill in your time estimate for these three levels of cleaning. Don't include soaking and drying times. The watch is adjusted to time, dial-up, after cleaning:

Level 1. Ultrasonic cleaning and lubrication with only the mainspring removed for lubrication. The rest of the movement, which has not been taken apart, is cleaned and lubricated with various solutions in the ultrasonic machine.

Level 2. As above, but in addition to the mainspring, the balance and cap jewels are also removed for cleaning and lubrication.

Level 3. Watch is entirely taken apart and cleaned by hand. Peg-wood and pith used. Parts soaked in cleaning solutions and rinsed. Lubrication by hand.

MY RESPONSE:

I have about 30 years experience, but I?m not a professional. I don't have an ultrasonic. I only do, "level 3." However, these are my work-time estimates:

Level 1. 3/4 hour
Level 2. 1 1/4 hours
Level 3. 2 ½ hours

The next post, might include the time to replace a common balance staff, such as a common friction fit 16 size Waltham. Or making a staff from scratch. I?m open for suggestions.

[Greg Crockett]

Now and then, people will post questions regarding the price of repairs. I'm of the impression that the cost should have something to do with the level of skill required and the length of time it takes to do the job. For this reason, I'm wondering if those of us who repair watches might give an idea of how long it takes to do common repairs. This post is to estimate cleaning time. Our hypothetical watch is a 16 size, stem-wind, lever set, open face 17 jewel, bridge type, common American made watch. Lets say it is otherwise in excellent condition but needs to be cleaned because it has been sitting around for 50 years without use. The works look rather dry. The case needs only to have dust blown out of it.

For each level, the dial is removed. Please fill in your time estimate for these three levels of cleaning. Don't include soaking and drying times. The watch is adjusted to time, dial-up, after cleaning:

Level 1. Ultrasonic cleaning and lubrication with only the mainspring removed for lubrication. The rest of the movement, which has not been taken apart, is cleaned and lubricated with various solutions in the ultrasonic machine.

Level 2. As above, but in addition to the mainspring, the balance and cap jewels are also removed for cleaning and lubrication.

Level 3. Watch is entirely taken apart and cleaned by hand. Peg-wood and pith used. Parts soaked in cleaning solutions and rinsed. Lubrication by hand.

MY RESPONSE:

I have about 30 years experience, but I?m not a professional. I don't have an ultrasonic. I only do, "level 3." However, these are my work-time estimates:

Level 1. 3/4 hour
Level 2. 1 1/4 hours
Level 3. 2 ½ hours

The next post, might include the time to replace a common balance staff, such as a common friction fit 16 size Waltham. Or making a staff from scratch. I?m open for suggestions.

I've been working on watches for about 10 years, and I don't make any particular effort to be "speedy" at it. My goal is to do the very best job possible on every watch I handle, regardless of how long it takes. I treat every watch as if it was an important family heirloom to it's owner, and I'd never consider doing what's termed above as a "Level 1" job.

I DO use an ultrasonic cleaning machine, as well as a conventional spinning machine, and in most instances, I don't peg out the jewel holes unless they still have something left on them when they come out of the cleaner. That rarely happens, but when it does, I apply peg wood as necessary, then run the parts through the cleaner a second time to remove the resulting peg wood residue.

I'd characterize my typical jobs at something between "Level 2" and "Level 3," as defined above. I don't use any type of "universal" lubricants, and I oil EVERY moving part by hand, with a lubricant correct for it's purpose (sometimes this is as many as 5 different lubricants). I remove ALL cap jewels, ALL mainsprings, center sweep pinions, and everything else of a nature that could trap dirt and/or residues.

To clean and oil a standard American 16s, 17j movement, without ANY sort of complications, typically takes me about 2 hours. Higher jeweled watches require longer due to the extra time that has to be spent with the extra cap jewels and their screws (removing them all, lubricating them all when finished, etc.). To clean and oil a typical 21j movement would take me more on the order of 2 1/2 hours.

If I really rushed (which isn't a good idea because it can result in mistakes, parts shot from tweezers, etc.), I might be able to do the job in about 3/4 that time, but I don't like to work that way. I've heard people say they could clean and oil a "typical railroad watch" in half an hour, but I certainly wouldn't want anyone to work on my watch that way! I can just imagine what sort of a job would result in that amount of time!

For what it's worth, it typically takes me about 5 hours to clean and oil a Rolex, or similar self-winding wristwatch. I have no idea if that's good, bad, or indifferent, but it's an approximate average for me.

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Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[Greg Crockett]

Thanks Steve:

I appreciated your comments. The levels are by the amount of time each type of cleaning would require of a watchmaker.

"Level 1" is a cheap job, and not recommended. It is there because time is money, and if someone is paying too little for cleaning, they are probably getting this sort of work.

Level 2. is ok with nearly all of the watchmakers I know. A few don't think it is correct unless the watch is entirely taken apart and then fed to the ultrasonic, but then it depends upon how dirty the watch is and the number of cap jewels, etc. That's why the hypothetical watch was described as carefully as it is.

Level 3. Involves the most hand and eye work of all. The point is, everything is taken apart. If the parts are placed into an ultrasonic, a spinner or into the old "benzine" cups most of the time is taken in disassembly inspection and reassembly of the movement.

No intent to time each other is intended. Only to get an idea of what sort of time is involved for a skilled person to do an exacting job. The customer may then have a better understanding of what is being paid for.

I've never done #1 so have no idea of a time estimate. Definitely not very long!

I occasionally do #2 - but I'm inherently uncomfortable with not really knowing what everything looks like. I'd say around an hour and a half.

#3 is what I prefer and what I will guarantee for 1 year. Takes me at least 2 hours but seldom more than 2 1/2. As Steve noted, I also try NOT to be in a hurry.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with Doug's comments - I've spent more time trying to get a friend's Ingersoll/Mickey Mouse watch running than I've ever spent on a 992! And I'm still trying!!! I should have listened to Nancy Reagan and learned to, "Just say, 'No!'"

[Greg Crockett]

Doug & Mike: You are correct, those "little" jobs can be a hard to estimate and take way too much time. The real reward is in turning back the hands of time, bringing that dead watch back to life, and making someone happy.

REMEBER, this post is only seeking time estimates to clean the above hypothetical watch, in the hypothetical condition stated via the three levels of cleaning. It is easier to set a time base for this one basic service.

[Tom McIntyre]

Regardless of what level of cleaning you want, if the person is not qualified to completely disassemble the watch, you don't want them to touch it at all.

If they are competent and have good screwdrivers and tweezers, you will not be able to tell it was touched except that it will be clean and run more briskly.

For watches in my collection, I do not wear them or run them except to show someone. For these watches my instructions to the watchmaker are "make it run" which usually results in a level 2 cleaning unless a problem shows up.

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Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapters 174 and 87
Member Chapters 8, 87, 149, 159, 161 and 174
NAWCC: Crafts Committee, Web Committee
Pocket Horology Web
Tommy the JOAT's Web

[Greg Crockett]

I am concerned that few people will talk freely about the way they clean watches and their charges for doing so if subject to comments. While $25.00 is cheap, it is charged by someone who does a few for friends and for himself. I suspect if trying to make a living, he would charge more.