Ball & Co. vs. Railroad Watch Co.

Okay all you RR watch experts, here's one that's been puzzling me. I have a 18s, 16j Hamilton/Ball marked "Railroad Watch Co.". The watch is serial #20953. According to Ehrhardt, the year of production would be 1896 and would be in the fourth run (first run being the trial run of #601 to #625). I also have a 18s, 17j Hamilton/Ball marked "Ball & Co." that is serial number 14175. This watch would be a third run watch produced between 1895-97. The question is, when did Hamilton and/or Ball start/stop using "Railroad Watch Co." and "Ball & Co." on these early 18 size watches? Shugart seems to indicate that the serial numbers of 13001 to 15000 (second and third runs) would all be "Railroad Watch Co." but #14175 goes against the grain. One guy told me that 14001 to 14300 were marked "Ball & Co.". Does anyone have data to support that? I guess the next question would be, when did it move to "Ball Watch Co."? Sorry for the lengthy message - I tried to be concise.

Okay all you RR watch experts, here's one that's been puzzling me. I have a 18s, 16j Hamilton/Ball marked "Railroad Watch Co.". The watch is serial #20953. According to Ehrhardt, the year of production would be 1896 and would be in the fourth run (first run being the trial run of #601 to #625). I also have a 18s, 17j Hamilton/Ball marked "Ball & Co." that is serial number 14175. This watch would be a third run watch produced between 1895-97. The question is, when did Hamilton and/or Ball start/stop using "Railroad Watch Co." and "Ball & Co." on these early 18 size watches? Shugart seems to indicate that the serial numbers of 13001 to 15000 (second and third runs) would all be "Railroad Watch Co." but #14175 goes against the grain. One guy told me that 14001 to 14300 were marked "Ball & Co.". Does anyone have data to support that? I guess the next question would be, when did it move to "Ball Watch Co."? Sorry for the lengthy message - I tried to be concise.

[rrstd]

I do not have any documentation to support, but I have been told by a very reliable source and longtime collector that the Railroad Watch Co. marked Ball's were sold as lower cost alternatives to the ORRS Ball's. I would speculate that if this is correct, the RRWCo marked watches were sold to gain sales/market share without compromising the pricing of the ORRS's. They may also have been targeted at non-railroad employees wanting a railroad watch.

In regards to serial number ranges, I do not have the exact ranges handy, but will reply later if noone else posts the information. I can say that I have seen RRWCo markings in the 20K and 70K ranges. I also know of watches marked Ball's Standard, Railroad Watch Co. which are also in the 20K range. I believe the Ball & Co markings went much later and can also be seen on early 16 size Waltham Ball's.



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That's interesting. The marketing tactic would explain why RRWCo marked watches were being produced along side B&Co. watches. Very similar to the later "Commercial Standard" watches being produced along side the ORRS watches. Webb Ball was a pretty astute marketing director if nothing else.

[Kent]

Our data base shows watches in the range 20685-20872 are marked "Ball Standard Railroad Watch Co." while those in the range 20894-20983 are marked "Railroad Watch Co." We only have three or four examples of either of these in the data base.

Hamilton-Balls marked "Ball & Co." range from 13200 to 170240 in our data base.

Kent

[rrstd]

In checking my records, I was mistaken on the 70K range. The actual watch I was thinking of is 90,160.

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Thanks again. So Kent, does your database not indicate any "RRWCo." watches in the 13001 to 15000 range as indicated in Shugart?

[JohnL]

Kent
do you have the number of Ball&Co Waltham-Ball watches?
Thanks,
John

Kent,

Ya forgot....My HAMILTON - Ball marked Ball & Co. is ser. # 8774 produced circa 1894.

To all...

Ball & Co. was before the Railroad Watch Co.

I am unaware of any Waltham - Ball's marked Ball & Co. off the top o' my head...But I could be wrong,I'll have to check.

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BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[This message has been edited by BUZZ BAZARNICKI (edited 07-19-2001).]

[JohnL]

Buzz

Some movements of the early Waltham Ball watches, were marked on the movement "Ball &Co"

ORRS dials, I belive were also marked "Ball &CO" underneath the ORRS writing on the dial.

I have a Ball Waltham 17J Serial B060972 with such markings.

Interesting to note that in Col. Townsends book with the Ball serial numbers, this watches serial number is noted as part of a 23J run of Ball Walthams.