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  1. #1

    Default fast/slow dial on mantle clock

    I am trying to get my Ingraham Adrian mantle clock that I got back from the clock repairman to keep accurate time. I have been adjusting the nut on the pendulum bob. I figure I will use the F/S dial on the clock face to fine tune it.

    Question: if the clock is slow do I turn the dial toward the F to make it faster or towards the S because it is slow? How much do I turn the dial? or do I use trial and error?

    How does this work? In other words what is this dial connected to?

    thanks, abe
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ingraham Adrian d (1).JPG  

  2. #2

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    Your plan is a good one but first look at the adjustment mechanism on the movement and make sure that the adjustment range is close to centered. If not, rotate the rating square until it is centered. Then use the nut at the bottom of the pendulum to rate your clock. Probably just as well to do the fine adjustment here to. But, if you prefer to fine tune from the front, go toward the 'F' to make the clock go faster.

    Hope this helps, Willie X

  3. #3

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: Willie X)

    There are slots that the suspension spring passes through, called chops. If you raise the chops (or lower the spring, as in some clocks) the clock will run slower because there's more of the spring being used. The opposite will speed the clock up. Most clocks with the fast/slow mechanism do not have adjusters on the bob. You probably have the wrong bob for the clock. That's not a big deal, just not original. As Willie said, the "F" is for 'go faster' not 'you're too fast'

  4. #4

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: Willie X)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie X View Post
    Your plan is a good one but first look at the adjustment mechanism on the movement and make sure that the adjustment range is close to centered. If not, rotate the rating square until it is centered. Then use the nut at the bottom of the pendulum to rate your clock. Probably just as well to do the fine adjustment here to. But, if you prefer to fine tune from the front, go toward the 'F' to make the clock go faster.

    Hope this helps, Willie X
    Thanks, Willie. But where do I find the adjustment mechanism on the movement?

  5. #5

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    Your mechanism is just above the hands. A knurled wheel you turn with your thumb. If you turn it while watching the back of the movement it will be apparent what is happening.

  6. #6
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: shutterbug)

    Abe, the main reason for a fast/slow adjustment through the dial on a pendulum clock is when access to the pendulum bob to adjust it is awkward. For instance the pendulum is behind a bell or a gong or the clock is heavy or cumbersome to move to get to the pendulum.

    You are correct that the adjustment through the dial is for fine tuning as the extent to which such a device can raise the pendulum to make it go faster (F) or lower it to make it go slower (S) is limited. I'm not familar with the through the dial adjustment mechanism on this clock but the principle is the same. Your repairman really ought to have done this for you.
    Jonathan.

  7. #7
    Registered User Bruce Alexander's Avatar
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    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    Abe,

    Just to try and add to what has already been noted, I've uploaded a photo of the front of an Ingraham movement. The slot that Shutterbug refers to as the "Chops" is indicated by "1". The adjustment mechanism that Willie X refers to is indicated by "2". Since you have an adjustable bob, his suggestion that you center the mechanism first and then regulate the clock using the rating nut on the bob with fine tuning via the regulation wheel is an excellent one, HOWEVER, that will be tedious requiring careful handling and patience on your part. Access to the bob can be tricky on the Ingraham movements. I certainly agree with Jonathan. This is something that could have been done quickly and easily by the repairman with your movement on a test stand, but it's all part of owning and operating an antique clock. Enjoy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ingraham_Regulator.jpg  

  8. #8

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: shutterbug)

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    Your mechanism is just above the hands. A knurled wheel you turn with your thumb. If you turn it while watching the back of the movement it will be apparent what is happening.
    The Ingraham black mantles, of course, have the pendulum and suspension spring on the front, making it necessary to remove the dial to watch the action of the regulator. You can see the pendulum from the back, but often the raising and lowering is just a subtle movement.

    If this clock has the correct pendulum, it is a one-piece affair, a round ball (or disc) with a triangular or oval loop for hanging on the suspension spring. There may be no adjustable rating nut as Wilie suggests, although some have in frusrtation put such on these Ingrahams simply to be able to make grosser adjustments. Some other makers wisely put adjustable pendulums on their black mantles and cabinet clocks intentionally to allow for this.

    I see TimeafterTime has posted a picture of an Ingraham movement. Well done.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: Steven Thornberry)

    Also, if it reaches the range of adjustement and doesn't seem
    to turn any or, don't force it. The dial thumb wheel is harder
    to break than the key type but still can be damaged with force.
    You can center the adjustment by noting the number if turns
    before it stops in each direction. If you have rating nut, you
    can then center the adjustement and then adjust the rating
    nut to get it close. Then use the dial F/S to fine tune, as Willie
    suggest.
    For fine adjustment, do it over a full wind. It is normal for
    these clocks to run fast at the begin of the wind and then
    slow at the end.
    Tinker Dwight

  10. #10

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: Tinker Dwight)

    One other caution, (along with an apology for making you look at the back of the clock instead of the front ) ........ If the clock is running fast, and has an adjustable bob (perhaps added by the repairman?) you might find that the bob drags on the table top before proper timing can be attained. In that case, the suspension spring/rod needs to be shortened. That would have been the proper way any way, rather than switching to an adjustable bob.

  11. #11

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: shutterbug)

    Abe,

    The centered position does not have to be exact. On your clock you can thumb the wheel all the way to 'S' and then back about 4 or 4 full turns. This will get you close enough so you will have plenty of adjustment.

    Rough adjustments can be done daily, fine adjustments are done at every winding interval. Better than + or - 5 minutes per week would be a good goal for your clock. When you get the clock doing the best rate it will do, you can half the error by setting the clock forward or back by half the error. That is, if your clock is always 4 minutes fast, simply set it 2 minutes slow each week.

    Hope this helps, Willie X

  12. #12
    Registered User Bruce Alexander's Avatar
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    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: Steven Thornberry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Thornberry View Post
    Well done.
    Thank you Steven but I was just trying to add to all of the great advice already given. I really like Ingrahams. I think that they are generally undervalued. Their "Dial in the Dial" regulation mechanism is pretty neat and distinctive. As Tinker stated, it's not nearly as easy to damage as the more standard keyed arbor turned by a winding key that the owner is accustomed to using a lot of force with. It does tend to result in badly soiled paper dials, but we are talking about true antiques after all.

  13. #13

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    The trial and error concept to both the key adjustment and the wheel adjustment are pretty much the same. Without knowing the placement of where the suspension is at the time of the adjustment. It is very hard for a novice to even grasp it's function. Only referring to fast and slow or F & S. Only knowing that this should do something to do with the time. So without knowing where the suspension spring is at the start of the cycle. No wonder allot of these are broken by the general public. I have found some of the key adjusted ones, with all the teeth gone off of the post. And where somebody took a screw driver and flattened half the teeth on the front of the wheel. Aggravation spells force and the outcome is nonfluctuating regulating adjuster.

    When I start to regulate a clock with these type regulators. I always place the threads in the middle and adjust from there. This way you can go up or down for fast or slow. If the span is to great. It's either the length of the suspension rod or the pendulum. But it gives you a place to start.
    H/C
    "There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal." WWW.Heritage-Clocks.com

  14. #14

    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    Thanks for all the help guys! Yes, as I said in another thread, the clock was missing its bob. The repairman put one one but I think it is too heavy. I can see if he has a lighter one or I could buy an Ingraham bob on ebay, you know the kind with an 'I' on it. It doesn't really matter what it looks like because you don't see the bob anyway.

    The clock is about 5 minutes slow in 12 hours. This morning I screwed the nut up to the end of the threads. So if that doesn't make it faster I will need another bob. I will try to adjust the F/S dial also.

    Thanks again, abe

  15. #15
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    Default Re: fast/slow dial on mantle clock (RE: abe)

    Hi
    Mine has a weigth of about 54 grams. The weight
    is not all that critical. If it runs the weight is most likely
    OK.
    The weight has little to do with the rate. It is where the
    weight is that is critical for the rate.
    If it is stopping, it may need the beat adjusted but that
    is a different peoblem.
    I guess we should ask what the problem is that your trying
    to correct first?
    Tinker Dwight

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