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  1. #16
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    A few years ago our company shipped a bunch of battery operated lawnmowers to various locations around the US using a courrier. We had performed all sorts of shipping tests on the packaged mower, and then made sure that we exceeded them. A few days after the shipment we got a call from the courrier that there was smoke coming from their air cargo containers and they had to bring back a number of aircraft. Pilots don't like smoke in the cargo area. Courriers don't like bringing back aircraft. We were is deep ####. We sent one of our guys to the courrier hub to see what was going on. As Tinker says these guys are on very tight schedules. Our boxes had weights printed on them. However when the truck arrived at the hub there was no one to help the guy off load the truck. Some of our cartons were stacked two high in the truck. Without any assistance he simply pushed them off the top of the stack onto the ground below. Although the packaging didn't look all that bad from the outside, the internal 20+lb battery ripped out of its mounting and caused a soft short. Smoke ensued. Further as the cartons go down the converyor, equipment reads the bar code and "punches" the carton off onto side conveyors depending on destination. These sensors can't read "fragile" markings...and they don't care. It was absolutely brutal. We got fined for the issue, but in the end it got reduced since they admitted that their policy was to use two people to off load packages over a marked weight.
    We learned that we had to really overpackage our product if courriers were involved and had to develope a new series of tests.
    David S

  2. #17
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    Wow... :-( What a shame !

    About 6 years ago I restored a circa 1750 English Tall Clock that took a forward nose dive. It broke into 20+ pieces... They all went back together nicely... like a jigsaw puzzle. When it was back together you could hardly tell it had been smashed into that many pieces... The damage to this clock though is beyond hope ( being veneers, etc. ) !!!

    Shippers :-( :-( (Grrrrrr... ^#$*&^&$%)

  3. #18

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    My goodness... Sorry to see this. Did they ran it over with their truck or what...

    I doubt if double boxing would have prevented this. Its ashame nobody can be held responsible for this obvious mistreatment or accident.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    This was discussed in another clock chat room. There were folks there that intentionally left the "fragile" sticker off the package. They said they got less damage that way.

  5. #20
    Registered User etmb61's Avatar
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: Brian Smith)

    Sometimes you have to take the other side.

    You can blame the shippers all you want, but you know about the problems they create.

    Your shipping box looks like a 75 psi moving box, which is adequate for loading into a moving van and unloading at your new house, but wrong for shipping anything breakable. You've just been dodging bullets.

    They make much better boxes.

    Also, if you don't feel comfortable tossing your packing job a short distance onto a hard surface, don't ship it!

    Eric

  6. #21

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: etmb61)

    I've put this into Horo Misc, where it more properly belongs.
    “If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.” - Oscar Wilde

  7. #22
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    I had an item shipped from Germany, it was double boxed, it arrived with no problems, another one was a russian sub clock shipped from the US, it was sent in the same box the clock was sold in, a thin cardboard box with no extra packaging, the plastic wall mount was damaged but fixable, the balance staff was broken but a new platform fixed that, I was just amazed the case and glass were intact.

    personally I think putting "Fragile" on anything is asking for trouble, better to pack the item like you expect it to get roughly treated.

  8. #23

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: Steven Thornberry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Thornberry View Post
    I've put this into Horo Misc, where it more properly belongs.
    Steven, thank you for moving this Sorry for putting her in the wrong slot.

    Posting this was a bit of a conundrum for me, anyway.... it's a negative subject and I was hesitant about bringing it up.
    The clock talked loud. I threw it away, it scared me what it talked. ~Tillie Olsen, Tell Me a Riddle

  9. #24

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: etmb61)

    Quote Originally Posted by etmb61 View Post
    Sometimes you have to take the other side.

    You can blame the shippers all you want, but you know about the problems they create.

    Your shipping box looks like a 75 psi moving box, which is adequate for loading into a moving van and unloading at your new house, but wrong for shipping anything breakable. You've just been dodging bullets.

    They make much better boxes.

    Also, if you don't feel comfortable tossing your packing job a short distance onto a hard surface, don't ship it!

    Eric
    Eric, I absolutely respect your opinion and value your input..... but ah got's to defend mah woman here

    The buyer's pics show unspeakable carnage, no question there..... but the unveiling of the busted case does not represent the way that it was packed. The clock was packed inside with rolled styrofoam "cloth". Rolled so as to fit into places and then expand just enough keep internals from moving and rattling. The clock was wrapped tight with several layers of the same padding and then surrounded by bubble packs and more padding. All sides of the box were reinforced by cutting 1" thick styrofoam slabs to fit. My wife might have added corners, I do not remember.

    The clock was suspended in the middle of this cushioned mass; it would not move a bit and I would have laid down cash that it would take a drop to concrete from 8', should such a wager been offered.

    I am positive, however, that it arrived loose and rattling....... as the busted up case would have no longer had the same mass to keep it suspended. The buyer also would have had to cut all of the taped layers of said "cloth" after removing the surrounding styrofoam slabs and bubble packs to take the photos of the wreckage.

    I'm not saying that it ain't wrecked..... because obviously it was! I am just saying that the photos don't show how it left my house. And I don't want to seem like I am putting the onus of taking those photos on the buyer or implying subterfuge..... I just want to let the members know that it was packed tight and padded.

    That being said, I take the blame for the loss. I have come to realize that if something can outlive you, you do not "own" it..... but are a mere caretaker. And it makes me sick to my stomach that this occurred on my watch.

    And I will say that it could have been double boxed..... but I do not know that anything less than shipping this in a safe would have prevented the damage that occurred when it took a haymaker to the chops.
    The clock talked loud. I threw it away, it scared me what it talked. ~Tillie Olsen, Tell Me a Riddle

  10. #25
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: bajaddict)

    I doubt you could have avoided this damage with more cardboard. It looks like something heavy was dropped onto the box from some height. Probably would have busted up a plywood box just as badly. Looks like a bowling ball was dropped from about 6 feet on it.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  11. #26
    Registered User etmb61's Avatar
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    Packing and shipping is the one thing that annoys me most since I started getting interested in the world of clocks. Most of what I've aquired has been shipped to me. I must say I've never encountered as much damage with anything I've collected over the years as I have since I started buying clocks. That has led me to believe that these delicate and often irreplaceble items require special packaging and handling. It's reached the point for me that whenever I buy a clock or even parts from a non-commercial seller, the first converastion I try to have before I'll pay for anything is about packing for shipment.

    I had one seller who refused to discuss actual packing tell me they always pack with "love and care." I'm sure they did too, but not with knowledge. The clock arrived lovingly carefully broken.

    There's an entire industry centered arround packing items and getting them delivered safely, but somehow private sellers are not able to learn from their knowledge and expertise.

    My bottom line is that if you are going to ship a clock that someone else has paid for (they own it) you have to pack it deliberatly in a sturdy purpose made container to protect it while in transit. Whatever that takes can only be determined by examining what you're shipping, thinking about how it's made and what will happen to it along the way, and packing to prevent the damage.

    No offense intended to the Mrs.

    Soapbox mode off.

    Eric

  12. #27

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: etmb61)

    Eric - I agree with you and really do value your experience and appreciate the time that you took to provide your input. There's no offense taken on my part (or, by proxy, my trophy-wife)

    I have been at this just a couple of years now..... so for a guy like me to assert that I am full-up, knowledge-wise would be a laughable joke indeed. If nothing else, I gotta take a hard lesson learned from this and do my utmost to prevent this from occurring again.

    Chris
    The clock talked loud. I threw it away, it scared me what it talked. ~Tillie Olsen, Tell Me a Riddle

  13. #28
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: etmb61)

    Quote Originally Posted by etmb61 View Post
    Packing and shipping is the one thing that annoys me most since I started getting interested in the world of clocks. Most of what I've aquired has been shipped to me. I must say I've never encountered as much damage with anything I've collected over the years as I have since I started buying clocks. That has led me to believe that these delicate and often irreplaceble items require special packaging and handling. It's reached the point for me that whenever I buy a clock or even parts from a non-commercial seller, the first converastion I try to have before I'll pay for anything is about packing for shipment.

    I had one seller who refused to discuss actual packing tell me they always pack with "love and care." I'm sure they did too, but not with knowledge. The clock arrived lovingly carefully broken.

    There's an entire industry centered arround packing items and getting them delivered safely, but somehow private sellers are not able to learn from their knowledge and expertise.

    My bottom line is that if you are going to ship a clock that someone else has paid for (they own it) you have to pack it deliberatly in a sturdy purpose made container to protect it while in transit. Whatever that takes can only be determined by examining what you're shipping, thinking about how it's made and what will happen to it along the way, and packing to prevent the damage.

    No offense intended to the Mrs.

    Soapbox mode off.

    Eric
    Eric, I wonder if putting a clock like this in a sturdy plastic bag, then filling the container with spray foam insulation around the clock, also in a bag, would guarantee a safe arrival?? Haven't tried this, and I don't know if it's expansion properties might damage the clock, but it may be worth experimenting. What do others think?? A can of this stuff would be under $10, and may be enough for several boxes/clocks.
    Downside may be removing it.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  14. #29
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    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: harold bain)

    First, let me respond to Harold's idea about the foam insulation... I think I want to try that. It may take a little practice, but I've seen packaging material similar that expands to surround the item in a plastic encased foam. I don't know why it wouldn't work with this application...

    Worth thinking about.

    bajaddict - I think there has been a lot said about the packaging, so let me weigh in on the insurance side.

    First of all, I have no connection whatsoever with FedEx. I have been using FedEx now for more than 10 years and whenever they have damaged something (3 times in that period), they have been super about taking care of it. The latest case in point is a good example... The clock arrived damaged. I called FedEx (spoke to a real live person) and told them what had happened. The customer service person asked me to contact the buyer and have the clock in the original box available for pickup by FedEx the next day. Once they had possession, they examined the packaging, determined it was their fault, returned the clock to me and in a week I had a check for the selling price plus my shipping. The buyer got his money back and it cost him nothing to return it to me.

    But here's the nice part of using FedEx... insurance is free for the first $100 in value and is only cents on the dollar after that. PLUS a tracking number is included with every package, again, free of charge.

    Any time I have been forced to use the USPS or UPS, and damage has occured, it has taken months to get resolution (6 months with the USPS).

  15. #30

    Default Re: What a shame - absolutley sickened (By: Bogey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogey View Post
    First, let me respond to Harold's idea about the foam insulation... I think I want to try that. It may take a little practice, but I've seen packaging material similar that expands to surround the item in a plastic encased foam. I don't know why it wouldn't work with this application...

    Worth thinking about.

    bajaddict - I think there has been a lot said about the packaging, so let me weigh in on the insurance side.

    First of all, I have no connection whatsoever with FedEx. I have been using FedEx now for more than 10 years and whenever they have damaged something (3 times in that period), they have been super about taking care of it. The latest case in point is a good example... The clock arrived damaged. I called FedEx (spoke to a real live person) and told them what had happened. The customer service person asked me to contact the buyer and have the clock in the original box available for pickup by FedEx the next day. Once they had possession, they examined the packaging, determined it was their fault, returned the clock to me and in a week I had a check for the selling price plus my shipping. The buyer got his money back and it cost him nothing to return it to me.

    But here's the nice part of using FedEx... insurance is free for the first $100 in value and is only cents on the dollar after that. PLUS a tracking number is included with every package, again, free of charge.

    Any time I have been forced to use the USPS or UPS, and damage has occured, it has taken months to get resolution (6 months with the USPS).
    Thank you, Bogey I appreciate you sharing the benefit of your positive experience.
    The clock talked loud. I threw it away, it scared me what it talked. ~Tillie Olsen, Tell Me a Riddle

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