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  1. #61

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: johnbscott)

    can we see pics of the 23J??

  2. #62

    Smile Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research

    This (the 23-jewel watch S/N B060909) was reported as being seen on eBay on May 20, 2017. However, I don't recall seeing a picture at that time.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  3. #63

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Kent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent View Post
    This (the 23-jewel watch S/N B060909) was reported as being seen on eBay on May 20, 2017. However, I don't recall seeing a picture at that time.
    Item #401356717326
    Ended July 9, 2017

    Photos are still online.

  4. #64
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: TimeAntiquarian)

    The item number does not work for me, but the URL does. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Am-Walt...p2047675.l2557
    I have asked the seller for permission to post pictures here but have not yet had a response.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  5. #65

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research

    Here is the listing I was referencing:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Waltham...-/401356717326

    Looks like someone recased it and flipped it for a profit.


    (Edit: And for the purpose of documenting for future reference, it appears that the dial and hands were replaced during the cosmetic overhaul.)
    Last edited by TimeAntiquarian; 07-10-2017 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Additional Info.

  6. #66
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research

    FWIW, there is also no sale noted on the second auction. It is just ended. The one I posted is 060909 and the other is 060907, so I do not think this was a flip.

    There is no record available of the May auction of 060909.
    Last edited by Tom McIntyre; 07-10-2017 at 02:01 PM. Reason: add note on dates
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  7. #67

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Same watch, B060909 both listings.
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  8. #68

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Tom McIntyre)

    I see now that the second one ended without a sale.

    It is the same watch as the previous auction though. Both are serial #B060909.

    Was there an additional auction back in May or was that the one that ended June 6?

  9. #69
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred, you cheated and looked at the watch. I was going by the detailed listing.
    Code:
    Year of Manufacture:	1900-1909	Number of Jewels:	23 Jewels
    Closure:	Open Face	Pocket Watch Size:	16
    Features:	Mint Ball Railroad, 12-Hour Dial, 24-Hour Dial, Arabic Numerals	MPN:	
    Does Not Apply
    Movement:	Mechanical (Hand-winding)	Material:	Yellow Gold Filled
    Country/Region of Manufacture:	United States	Serial Number:	B0690907
    Escapement Type:	Lever	Model:	
    Ball Waltham 23 Jewel
    Brand:	
    BALL Waltham
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  10. #70

    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Tom McIntyre)

    In the second auction, under Item Specifics, the movement number was mis-stated as being B060907 but it was correctly identified as B060909 in the text, below that. The accompanying photographs confirm this. It was the same movement, both times.

    In its initially offered form, the assemblage would have been a fairly plain workaday railroad watch (retrofitted, for utilitarian purposes, with replacement dial, hands and case). Its saving grace, for its long survival, would have been its status as a lever set movement assisted, no doubt, by its high jeweling.

    In its current form, the movement is presented as a rare collectible, fitted out with more appealing dial, hands and case.

    The configuration of the watch is not of the original style, in either instance.

    Out of all this comes the finding that the configuration of the first run of Ball-Waltham was varied. The varieties included pendant setting, lever setting, Brotherhood marked, jewelled to 17J and 23J. Case variations are also likely, though those are very hard to pin down after all this time. I think the dial (small Gothic numerals, RR appearing to be offset, to the right) and the hands (wine-coloured) would have been consistent throughout the run (except, of course, where a Brotherhood dial was fitted).

    As most of us know, the story of Ball watches is complex. For that reason, the book has, yet, to be written!

  11. #71

    Question Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom McIntyre View Post
    Fred, you cheated and looked at the watch. I was going by the detailed listing.
    Code:
    Year of Manufacture:	1900-1909	Number of Jewels:	23 Jewels
    Closure:	Open Face	Pocket Watch Size:	16
    Features:	Mint Ball Railroad, 12-Hour Dial, 24-Hour Dial, Arabic Numerals	MPN:	
    Does Not Apply
    Movement:	Mechanical (Hand-winding)	Material:	Yellow Gold Filled
    Country/Region of Manufacture:	United States	Serial Number:	B0690907
    Escapement Type:	Lever	Model:	
    Ball Waltham 23 Jewel
    Brand:	
    BALL Waltham
    Tom:

    Since when do you believe what the sellers state?
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  12. #72
    Registered User Paul Sullivan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research (By: Kent)

    Here is the latest Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research list, now up to 32.

    1 B060706 Pendant Set
    2 B060708 Setting unknown
    3 B060710 Lever set
    4 B060713 Pendant Set
    5 B060729 Pendant Set
    6 B060759 Lever set
    7 B060768 Pendant Set
    8 B060771 Setting unknown
    9 B060773 Pendant Set
    10 B060778 Setting unspecified (probably Pendant Set)
    11 B060783 Pendant Set
    12 B060809 Lever Set
    13 B060812 Pendant Set
    14 B060836 Pendant Set
    15 B060841 Pendant Set
    16 B060842 Pendant Set
    17 B060863 Lever Set
    18 B060869 Setting unknown
    19 B060890* Pendant Set
    20 B060909* Lever set (23J)
    21 B060915 Lever Set
    22 B060972 Pendant Set
    23 B061018 Setting unknown
    24 B061021 Pendant Set
    25 B061026 Pendant Set
    26 B061060 Pendant Set
    27 B061063 Setting unknown
    28 B061075 Pendant Set
    29 B061078 Pendant Set
    30 B061093 Pendant Set
    31 B061095 Pendant Set
    32 B061099 Setting unknown

    * indicates latest addition

    Paul

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