New to forum, need help with I.D.

[shatfield]

I just purchased this mantel clock. It was advertised as French but I believe it is English. It measures 20 1/2 w x 12 3/4 h by 7 d. I took the pendulum off to move it and the pendulum says "Made in England". It has a coil gong. It was a prize in some sort of games between the South Fulham Constitutional Club and the Fulham Conservative Club in London in 1903-4 according to the plaque. It is extremely heavy. Not made of wood but I forgot what the material is. Key wound I believe 8 day. Smaller key wind hole at top of dial has f and s adjustments. I could not find any makers name on inside movement looking through the back hole. I'll take it off the mantel and take pictures of the inside as best as I can if necessary but I'm not too keen on moving it a lot. Probably weighs in the neighborhood of 20-30 lbs. I'm not asking folks to do my homework for me, I'll do the research if someone can point me in the right direction. I appreciate your input.

Steve in North Carolina

[Ed O'Brien]

Hard to answer without seeing the movement. By my eyesight the location of the winding arbors could be about the right distance for a French movement. Pendulum may or may not be original. You'll have to look at the movement. If it is round, it's likely French, and another clue will be numbers at the bottom of the movement that indicate the pendulum length. I would guess the material the case is made of is slate.

[shatfield]

Hey Ed. Thanks. I can tell you I recall the movement is indeed round. And there are about 5 or 6 numbers along the bottom of the movement. The last being an 8 about an inch away from the other numbers. I went ahead and took pics of the movement as best as I could. The numbers on the movement are 67544 and what I thought was an 8 now looks like an O with a U on top of it.

Steve

[John Hubby]

Steve, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your clock.

The movement appears to definitely be French, but we need to see the logo stamp that is hidden behind the pendulum rod and gongs to be able to see who actually made it. You will need to remove the pendulum to get a clear photo of the logo stamp, also would be good to remove the gong but at least with the pendulum out you should be able to get a decent photo of the logo with your camera on its Macro setting.

We will look forward to seeing what the logo says. This clock could have been made in France for the English market, or the movement purchased from France and installed in a case in England. The case material appears to be Belgian slate, the 1905 date on the presentation plaque shows it was likely made not long before that date.

[jmclaugh]

The movement is French, 8 day and the S/F is a suspension adjustment device to regulate the clock by making small adjusments to the length of the pendulum which is a replacement one. To obtain a good photo of the mark on the backplate it may actually be better to remove the movement rather than the gong which is a pain to do in these clocks though it is in dire need of a clean while the movement itself looks in a relatively clean condition. If it is an 8 at the base of the backplate it may mean the pedulum is 8 French inches long.

A quick google reveals the South Fulham Constitutional Club is still going.

[shatfield]

I'm afraid the best I can do is these two attempts at the makers mark. I'm truly afraid of taking this clock apart not knowing what I'm doing. I'm assuming that having an English pendulum detracts from it's value.


I really do appreciate all you help and information.

Steve

[harold bain]

I can't make anything out in your picture. You will have a better chance of reading what's in the circle trademark using a magnifying glass and a good light.

[shatfield]

Harold with a magnifying glass I can read Marque Deposee, which from what I read simply means trademark in French. There are no other words in the circle.

Steve

[harold bain]

Steve, we probably get more French clocks that cannot be identified, than those that can be. The round French movement was made for a century or more with very few changes to help dating them. And it was made by many different makers in basically the same shape and design.

[shatfield]

Thanks again Harold. If one looks at my post #3, and looks at the second picture from the left, and looks to the right of the pendulum, there appears to be some sort of mark. I am positive it's not an 8 as I have looked at it under the magnifying glass. It looks like an O with a U sitting on top of the O. Could that be a makers mark or simply a miss struck 8?

Steve

[soaringjoy]

Steve, numbers like your "8" very often indicated a production charge / lot,
or it could be the pendulum length in French lignes.
Please do understand, that very much knowledge has been lost or tossed,
not only concerning French clocks, but others too.
We have learned to live well with these frustrating things...

[shatfield]

Thanks Jurgen. I just wondered if what I thought was a U over an O was actually a makers mark and not an 8 miss stamped.

Steve