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Thread: Search problems

  1. #1
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    Default Search problems

    OK, I've been trying to do a search in the Clock Repair portion of the forum

    OK- so I've been trying to search for Barrel Repairs, as in repairing a mainspring barrel. Not the lid.
    So- If I enter Barrel Repair in search , it comes back with a bunch of post that contain EITHER the word "Barrel" or "Repair".
    So- we learn and get smarter.... enter "Barrel Repair" (in quotes) and... voila... displaying 1-13 of 70 results.
    Can't find what I'm looking for on page 1, but, there is always pg 2 and 3 (strange... 3 x 13 doesn't add up to 70...)

    But wait... when I click on pg 2 (or pg 3 for that matter), up comes
    " Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. ", or, sometimes I see something like "Search results too common. Search string too short".

    Same thing goes when I search for "Barrel Lid Repair" (3 words, all in quotes).

    What gives
    1. So why can one not see all of the found threads/posts after page 1?
    2. Why don't the number of results add up?
    3. What is the correct process for searching multiple words where ALL WORDS must be found, not just one or two of them. I know some sections can have hundreds of answers, so this would be a way to narrow things down.

    Thanks
    Matthias in B.C.
    ------------------

  2. #2
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Search problems (RE: matthiasi)

    Funny, I can view all pages of search results, no problem there.
    You might try for instance, barrel+hook+repair, that narrows it down to
    4 pages.
    Are you doing a Clock Repair forum search (grey bar / search forum) or a MB search
    (blue bar on top) ?
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  3. #3
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Search problems (RE: matthiasi)

    The quotes tell the search facility to search for the exact phrase. The odd counts is a bug of some kind but I think it relates to multiple occurrences of the phrase in a single thread or post. It is possible that the number of pages needed is calculated before the display is created.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
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  4. #4
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Search problems (RE: Tom McIntyre)

    I think I've figured out what happens when using Advanced Search:

    The quick answer is that the search result always shows the number of Posts that contain the search Keywords, even if you specify Threads. The page result at the top will always show the number of Posts, but the correct number of threads will be shown in the result at the bottom even though that also shows the total number of posts, e.g. Result 1 to 13 of 161 as I illustrate in the first of the following examples.

    In a very simple search, I put the letters RSM in the Keyword(s) box, and "Search all open forums" using "Thread" mode. The return is supposedly seven pages containing 161 results reported at the top, but the note at the bottom says Results 1 to 13 of 161. When I click on page 2, get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.". In fact what is presented in this result is 13 threads which is all that exist with that term.

    When I make the same search but ask for Posts, it again returns seven pages, but this time there in fact are seven pages including a total of 161 posts. The note at the bottom on page one in this instance says Result 1 to 25 of 161. Each subsequent page shows 25 posts and the note provides the correct info, e.g. on the second page it says Result 26 to 50 of 161.

    I did the same thing using the combinations RSM Schnekenburger, RSM+Schnekenburger, and "RSM Schnekenburger" and got the following for the first page result:

    RSM Schnekenburger: Threads: Result 1 to 6 of 87, 4 pages, only 1 page of threads _ _ _ Posts: Result 1 to 25 of 87, 4 pages. Actually were 4 pages of posts.

    RSM+Schnekenburger: Exactly same results as for RSM Schnekenburger.

    "RSM Schnekenburger": Returned "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." Believe this is correct as I have not seen that sequence used in any of the relevant threads.

    So . . it looks like when you specify "Threads" you do get those threads that include the term, but the reported result is NOT the number of threads but actually the number of Posts! IF you are just looking for threads, pay attention to the note at the bottom as it tells you the number of threads on each page as you proceed in reviewing them. For example, if there are 30 threads and 175 posts containing the search term, the note at the bottom of the first page will say Result 1 to 25 of 175, but the second page note will say Result 26 to 30 of 175. If there are 25 or less then only the first page will contain the results of the search.

    It does appear this is some kind of bug, since the search result should report "only" the number of either "Threads" or "Posts" as appropriate. It isn't a problem once you understand what's happening but is VERY confusing and will be difficult to get the average user to understand what's happening.
    Last edited by John Hubby; 04-05-2012 at 10:32 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Search problems (RE: John Hubby)

    Well THANKS A BUNCH John!!
    I guess I'll get the hang of this yet.

    So RSM Schnekenburger will search for either of these ...
    RSM+Schnekenburger will search for threads/posts that include both terms, but not necessarily in that order or together...
    "RSM Schnekenburger" searches for the string within the quotes exactly.

    Good to know.
    Matthias in B.C.
    ------------------

  6. #6

    Default Re: Search problems (RE: matthiasi)

    So lets take the counts a step further: I did a search for "eli terry" with the quotes using the search found in the upper right on the main toolbar. After each Page I then went to the next.

    Results 1 to 25 of 500 Page 1 of 20
    Results 26 to 50 of 361 Page 2 of 15
    Results 51 to 75 of 307 Page 3 of 13
    Results 76 to 100 of 274 Page 4 of 11
    Results 101 to 125 of 256 Page 5 of 11
    Results 126 to 150 of 238 Page 6 of 10
    Results 151 to 175 of 219 Page 7 of 9
    Results 176 to 200 of 219 Page 8 of 9
    Results 201 to 219 of 219 Page 9 of 9

    At this point I went back to any of the 9 pages and the total was always correct at 219. So there is a bug in the TOTAL COUNT.

    Now, another bug is one of the entries, in this case it was entry 97, pointed to a posting in an albumn in the Member area. The title in the albumn was ELI TERRY & SONS RESTORATION. The title in the search ended up being ELI TERRY &AMP SONS. Note that this has been capitalized for emphasis only.
    Last edited by Dick C; 04-06-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Search problems (RE: matthiasi)

    Relative to the post that I just did, I deliberately spaced the info in the post, separating each line with a number of spaces so it was easier to read.

    Why does the software eliminate spaces?

  8. #8
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Search problems (RE: Dick C)

    The software does not know how to interpret multiple spaces. The string   is the entity that represents a requested non-breaking space. In general, the Internet treats all "white space" as a single separator. i.e. tabs, new lines, multiple spaces are all treated as a single space. If you are entering text in a form, the software changes your new line characters to the html break
    HTML Code:
    <br />
    but essentially treats the rest "normally" like the Internet treats all text.

    If you want words spaced out, you can create a table and use column spacing to achieve the result, but it is usually not worth the effort.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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