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  1. #16

    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Jerry Treiman)

    I was wondering about the Wadsworth Waltham cases marked "Riverside Waltham Watch Co" on the cuvee. Mine is a 19j semi-bridge #19059770. Were these movements usually factory cased?

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Kevin Moodie)

    Hi,
    I have just acquired #7076059 which I believe to be from the third run of this 17j Riverside model. It is in need of some TLC but from the photos I've seen it has the pressed dial, roman numerals but no gold centre wheel. I will post photos later next week once it has arrived here in UK.
    Allan

  3. #18
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Kevin Moodie)

    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    If all else fails - try sticking it in a case taken from a non-running model 1897 (e.g. grade "Bond St" or similar.) ... [/IMG]
    If you are referring to hawk61’s Riverside-A, I am afraid this will fail too. The Colonial-A is a much thinner movement and the stem will not line up well, front to back, in a case for a standard thickness movement like the 1897 model.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Moodie View Post
    I was wondering about the Wadsworth Waltham cases marked "Riverside Waltham Watch Co" on the cuvee. Mine is a 19j semi-bridge #19059770. Were these movements usually factory cased?
    I usually see this type of case marking on their Colonial Series movements, but yours would appear to be standard 12-size (based on the serial number records). This would not be as common. In the ‘teens (and even a little earlier) Waltham started doing more factory casing of their movements. These were usually custom sizes, but they also evidently cased some standard size movements. Movements were still available as well for casing by the jeweler.

    Allan - I look forward to seeing pictures of your movement.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  4. #19

    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Jerry Treiman)

    Jerry,

    thanks for the information.

    Kevin

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Kevin Moodie)

    Jerry and All,
    As promised, here are photos of the 12s Riverside which arrived today. From a superficial examanation it has a broken staff and the crown wont lift to allow setting of the hands. The case is a 20yr GF with the bow missing. Otherwise I'm pleased to have it for my collection and it will have to await its turn for service/repair as I've been a bit overactive in the acquisition department this year!!
    Allan
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  6. #21
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: AllanB)

    Very nice and early. That should clean up beautifully. I always like the gold jewel settings on these. You will note the following features of the earlier movements: pressed center dial on the earliest ones; brass center wheel (gold center wheel did not appear until maybe 7.3 million), riveted balance staff (friction staff appears in the 10-millions) and also (probably) an earlier mainspring type (hook end rather than hole end).
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Jerry Treiman)

    Hi All,

    I have become "hooked" on Riversides since acquiring the one above. Recently I have been fortunate enough to pick up another one off that well known auction site. As it was here in the Uk it meant no additional 20% import tax or handling charge which made for a very economical purchase for me -- less than £60.00.
    I attach photographs of this watch which is in very good condition, appears to be original and has a presentation inscription on the inner back cover of the Denison Silver case. It is for a Mr Barrett for his work done for the Royal Liver (Liverpool I believe) Friendly Society in 1907. It is a 14s, 1897 model, 19j Riverside serial No #12,585,585. It has a broken staff.
    In so far as I have been able to find out less than 3,000 of these were made but I have yet to ascertain how many of these (if any) were Htg configuration.
    One issue I could do with some help with is how the front bezel opens. The back has hinges and flips open using the small lip. However there is no hinge or lip on the front bezel and no signs of it ever having been touched with a blade to pop it off. Which makes me believe it is a screw fit. Gentle effort to unscrew has not so far worked.
    Grateful for any advice please?
    Allan
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  8. #23
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: AllanB)

    Nice!

    I love the 12 size, and the raised gold jeweled settings.


    Rob

  9. #24
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: musicguy)

    Allan - that is a great watch! As you and others on your side of the pond know, the vast majority of the 1897 model movements were lower-grade gilt movements. The Riverside was the best they made in this model. That is a great, classic case and dial, too.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Jerry Treiman)

    Jerry,

    Thank you. I was fortunate and am very pleased with this watch. As I said before it needs a staff and I have also now noticed that the adjustment arm is broken at the star.

    The description of the watch on the auction site did not mention anything other than "Riverside" and did not give the serial number, nor was it visible from the photograph. From having read your informative words above I had a hunch it was an 1897 model and this proved to be correct when I received the watch.

    Am I correct in my belief that this movement would have been cased in UK? The PWdata base says nearly 3,000 made, the NAWCC nearly 1,000 less.( This might be the difference between OF and HTg versions--I have yet to check) I also note that production date is circa 1903 whilst the inscription date on the watch is 1907, probably within tolerance.

    My only remaining puzzle is how to open the front bezel. I think it is a screw thread but I am reluctant to put too much pressure on it until I am certain. I am hoping there is another enthusiast in our community that has a similar case and can advise me before I try further.

    Once again thank you for informing us about these movements as without that knowledge I would have just taken this as another 12s Riverside and missed an excellent addition to my collection.

    Allan

  11. #26

    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: AllanB)

    Ah yes I think I saw that one... like you say, it was a reasonable bet that it was an 1897 but not certain, so I only put in a fairly modest bid. After all it would only be adding a duplicate to my collection.

    I have one here which is identical to yours (apart from the lettering on the dial) and the bezel pops off... put the watch knife in in the obvious place to start, and then slide it round to lengthen the opening until it comes apart. Be prepared for a bit of a fight to get the bezel back on, though.
    If well serviced you will be amazed how long this model can run for on a single wind. The one that's in the same case as yours goes for nearly 59 hours.

    Edit: The lookup ( http://nawccinfo.nawcc.org/LookupSN.php ) gives the 19J production figures as 450 HC and 750 OF ; with a further 500+50 recorded as grade "Export" likely to also be Riversides.
    In 17J it says there are also an additional 450+250 Riversides, with other grades 420 428 Peer and Royal also chipping in small totals.
    Last edited by topspin; 06-17-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: topspin)

    Topspin,

    Thank you. The reason I was uncertain was that there are no marks (at all) on the front bezel to show that it has been popped off hence I wondered whether it was a screw fit. But there again it may never have been off -- unlikely though. I did not want to proceed until I was more certain.

    Again thank you for the production figures they are lower than I expected -circa 800 OF. I must work out how to interogate the nawcc data base!!!

    ALLAN

  13. #28

    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: AllanB)

    The 19J Riversides do come around every so often, and the sellers are rarely aware of what an interesting piece it is they're selling, so they can be had quite cheaply.
    For me it was a "horological bucket list" item ticked off to get both a HC and an OF. If you want to copy me then do be prepared to buy up a lower-grade broken one as well, to give you a case, some hands, and a not-completely-trashed dial.

  14. #29
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: topspin)

    I have just one 19j Model 1894 Riverside, a semi-bridge model, #22,099,214, in a lovely 19 1/2k white gold and enamel W.W.C. Mfg. Co. case.

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  15. #30
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    Default Re: Waltham's Riverside grade -- the 12-size variants (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Ethan,

    Thank you for showing your watch. I do like the 12s Riverside movements and your white gold case and the dial realy are the icing on the cake.

    Allan

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