Gruen case production

[artbissell]

My 1900 to 1940+ Gruen cases indicate Gruen made only solid gold cases for p.w. Have not identified a gold fill one yet.
Various sizes in hunter and mostly open face. First I have is for 16s Assmann 73337 gift dated 1902. 161778 for 1915.
265560 gift date 1919 last one I have of early production but without original marking of Gruen Nat. W.C.Co.

G479701 for 14k Dietrich Gruen 1920+ made by Wadsworth.

Later ones for round and pentagon cases are marked Gruen Cincinnati. 1032926 is first pentagon 1922 yellow gold with G by 14k. Another 1036261 is pentagon gift of 1922 white gold with W by 18k. Disproves a Gruen history that W used for Wadsworth. By the time of 1054344 W mark not used. 1082018 1928 green gold is largest case number with me.

It seems to me Gruen best case work was before 1920 and starting with about 1000,000 there were changes or maybe no more Gruen made cases? Only case repairs advertised in the very comprehensive 1918 catalog.

Please anyone add any evidence of Gruen p.w. case production 1898-1930.

[artbissell]

Not clearly stated is that the intent of this listing of some Gruen made case numbers is to roughly date production and find out when Gruen quit case making. The examples come from my own gold cased Gruens and with engraved dates in them. From a fair sized example because from 50+ observed for sale and my own 20+.

Specifically would like to know about what I have speculated is confirmable, but most importantly if not consistant and if any one knows when Gruen quit case production. I am fairly certain they made 1922+ pentagon cases maybe to 1930? but cannot prove it from the way they started marking cases with 1,000,000+ numbers. Maybe someone knows Gruen production dates for w.w. that could help confirm?

Here an example of a 14 year later dated than made one. Presentation dates can be deceptive.

[Thojil]

I have two examples for you. The first one is a V3 Madretsch, marked Gruen Nat'l W.C.Co. with case number 182548 and is most likely from 1912. Instead of the usual gift date inscription, this one had a photo inside showing the gift date.

The second one is a Pentagon Ultra Veri-Thin UV, marked the usual way with case number 1218603, but not very helpful for your attempt to find a logic in the case numbers as I have no date for this one.

I have read in one of the forum comments that it is believed that Gruen manufactured solid gold PW cases at least up to 1935. This theory is based on a letter detailing a gold transfer made after the Gold Reserve Act took effect in 1934. It is describing a scene with armed treasury agents accompanying a shipment of bullion to the case works at Time Hill. It shows that until then Gruen was still using at least some gold. Don't remember who was the original source of this info though.

[artbissell]

Thojil: Appreciate your confirming my numbers for Gruen p.w. cases. Delayed response because of old browser rejection of new Bulletin system. Firefox works well.

[artbissell]

My 1900 to 1940+ Gruen cases indicate Gruen made only solid gold cases for p.w. Have not identified a gold fill one yet.

Later ones for round and pentagon cases are marked Gruen Cincinnati. 1032926 is first pentagon 1922 yellow gold with G by 14k. Another 1036261 is pentagon gift of 1922 white gold with W by 18k. Disproves a Gruen history that W used for Wadsworth. By the time of 1054344 W mark not used. 1082018 1928 green gold is largest case number with me.

It seems to me Gruen best case work was before 1920 and starting with about 1000,000 there were changes or maybe no more Gruen made cases? Only case repairs advertised in the very comprehensive 1918 catalog.

Please anyone add any evidence of Gruen p.w. case production 1898-1930.

Probable bad assumption about W and G letters marked in some 1,000,000+ Gruen-Cincinnati gold cases. Those with W mark I saw were white 18k so I assumed were for gold. Green gold cases had G. mark. However, this disproved by recent purchase of a predominantly yellow gold case with white gold back insert that has the W. mark. So it is most likely W. is for Wadsworth and G. for Gruen. Whether that means G is gruen made and W Wadsworth made is maybe true and those later 1,000,000+ solid gold cases without the G or W were probably by Wadsworth.

[Ethan Lipsig]

None of my Gruen pocket watches has a Gruen-signed gold-filled case, but one Pentagon has a solid gold Wadsworth-signed case. See below for photos of the Gruen signatures on my Gruen-signed pocket watches, as follows:

1. I once owned an Illinois 410 the came in this Gruen case, which had a very interesting inscription "A.S. Wormood, From Friends in the Office of Illinois Watch Company, July 1, 1907." Since the movement postdated the inscription by a dozen or more years, this Gruen case must originally have housed a different movement.
2. Gruen Carre #1,869,073 (15j Gruen Guild A movement)
3. Gruen Carre #627,877 (17 j Gruen-signed movement)
4. Pentagon #530,065 (21j V1 1/2 movement)
5. Pentagon #552,690 (17j ultra verithin movment)
6. Precision #138,362 (17j "chronometer balance" movement)

[artbissell]

Ethan: Very much appreciate the case numbers and movnt. numbers. The 2 old ones have the definite Gruen case made old marking. Good to know the 1907 date. This marking seems to have disappeared before 1920. Pentagons have the usual Gruen Cincinnati marking that without a G. may not be Gruen made. I am now fairly confident W. mark with the Gruen Cincinnati is a Wadsworth case. Still unproven. Getting close to rough dating or confirming Gruen p.w. age with case serial numbers at least.Oddly unable to even guess when Gruen quit making p.w. cases. I sense that their modestly sized gold case large volume production ceased before 1920, but they continued making specials through 1930.