J Marti & Cie Medaille de Bronze - an unfaithful friend

[Jubilado]

As a new member it is possible I have failed to use your search system to its best effect. In despair, I have started a new thread but would be happy to see it incorporated elsewhere if more appropriate.

In the late 60's I bought this Victorian mantle clock and despite three house moves, it ran perfectly and chimed the hours and half hours. The movement, pendulum and case all bear the same serial number but the timing regulation, actuated from above the 12 O'clock position was too worn to function correctly. I hope that you will not be too shocked to know that, in response to my wife's taste in interiors, the black case was promptly painted white!


For the last few years, it has ceased to be an eight day movement and runs for about 36 hours, always stopping at about 1230. From experience gained in renovating an old family long case clock, I might suspect that the fault lay in the area of syncronizing hand positions and the chime cam. As I do not have the competance or courage, to open the much finer mechanism of the French clock, I would be grateful for any comments or advice that wiser readers could offer.

[Burkhard Rasch]

Wellcome to this message board!Your pics show a verry good quality french so called "pendule de Paris" mvmt.with rack strike mechanism. made around 1880+-10years.I wonder if the color of the case is original.I would expect the case to be black belgium marble.Could it be someone sprayed white laquer over it?Anyway:Stopping at 12.30 indicates that the going train runs against the rack which has dropped to it´s lowest position and not being lifted to the 1 o´clock position yet.There is a device to enable the going train to overrun that condition,but if the train is a bit sticky with old oil and dirt the power remaining is not sufficient to do so.So a full service is needed,best to be done by a professional clocksmith.Marti was one of the maior manufacturers of these high quality mvmts,togther with Japy and Vincenti.A good reference book for these is Nicolas Thorpe´s:The French Marble Clock.HTH
Burkhard

BTW I wouldn´t call a friend unfaithfull who is just exhausted from providing the best service he´s able of to You

[soaringjoy]

Welcome to the board, Jubilado.

First, there is a nice drawing of your movement here:
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?3...717#post291717
Scroll down a bit.

I believe Burkhard is on the right track, suggesting the rack jams, although he has some
difficulty reading about colors today....

I'm moving this thread to the clock repair forum and the guys there will take you along.

[Chris]

Is the pin that holds the hands on still in place? If not, the pinned gear on the minute shaft can move forward and cause problems, too. In front of the minute hand should be a washer and then a pin. If it's gone, you need to replace it.

Has this clock ever been cleaned and oiled during your ownership? If not, it's also overdue for a cleaning and oiling. The mainsprings on French clocks are much thinner than American clocks and you'll need to check the ends that hook into the barrels to make sure they are not cracked. If they are, the ends can break off; the good news is they can be heated and re-punched to make a new end. It's a bit off-topic from where you started, but mechanical clocks do need periodic maintenance.

[Burkhard Rasch]

the pin is in place,so IMHO this rules out.OK,I´ve over-read the initial passage with the color,wasn´t concentrated..

Burkhard

[jmclaugh]

If its been running ok since the late 60's with no attention that is a very faithful friend, best advice is take it for a service.

The only thing I'll say about the paint job is at least it was well done.

[Jubilado]

Thank you all for the helpful and interesting comments. I had sent the clock for cleaning in November but now that the problem still exists, I have returned it under guarantee. I live in hope of a better result.

From information on this site, I gather that the date of manufacture is between 1860 and 1889. The heavy case looked more like slate than marble or maybe an early re-constituted stone, if such things existed then.

When I aquired it in 1966, the only thing that didn't and still doesn't, work was the regulator above the 12 on the dial that should have raised or lowered the pendulum very slightly.


The gentleness of the "tick" spoke to me of quality and your comments confirm this. Thank you all again.

[Jubilado]

Here is an update on my adventures with this clock. Following all that I had learned on the forum, I sent it away for cleaning. That did not solve my problems so, shortly before spending some weeks in Bali, I returned it to the repairer with the suggestion that he look at the chime mechanism and assuring him that he would have plenty of time to get things in order.

It is now home again, keeping fair time and chiming the hours and half hours as it should. With apologies to the purists; it is still white.

[shutterbug]

[Jubilado]

Here is a further update.

The repair was not as effective as I first thought. However, I have a further clue as to the problem. If I wind the LH (striker) spring every few days, perhaps only three clicks on the drum ratchet, all is well. If not the clock still stops.


It looks as though I have to find a better repair service but I would like to have more of an idea of what this symptom might suggest. It looks as though the strike mechanism only functions under maximum spring power conditions. What you think?

[shutterbug]

That's a sure indication of a power problem. Could be the spring, but much more likely a problem in the plates - either a worn out hole (or two) or bushings that were sized too small. Could also be a bent pivot or a meshing problem caused by a misplaced bushing. I think you'll need to remove it from the case again, let the springs down, and rock the first wheel while looking for pivot movement. That will be the place to start, and we'll go from there.

[harold bain]

Perhaps you are not fully winding the mainspring?

[Jubilado]

Perhaps you are not fully winding the mainspring?

No fear of that. I do fully wind the mainspring once every week but unless I check the chime spring at more frequent intervals, the clock stops. Thank you for your intervention, given my ignorance of practical horology, I'm grateful for all and any advice.

Shutterbug: I thank you too but I dare not touch anything more delicate than our old grandfather clock!

[shutterbug]

Well then, it might be time to entrust it to a repairman. You've probably done all you can do short of surgery

[Jubilado]

Well then, it might be time to entrust it to a repairman. You've probably done all you can do short of surgery

Shutterbug, I do agree but as the clock has been returned from its second trip to one repairman, I was looking for ideas to pass on to the next one - when I find him!

I never met the first one face to face and now hope to locate somebody with a workshop that I can actually visit.