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Thread: Post your LFS clocks here

  1. #91

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    I have an LFS clock, inherited from my great-uncle. Here are a couple of pictures.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Markings on the movement:

    Plate: Barillets a déboiter séparément sans démontage du mouvement par levée du pont et du rochet. D.R.G.M. 776168

    Stamped/engraved:
    D.R.P. 273703
    D.R.G.M. No 528470
    FR PAT No 456971

    92596

    47

    I see two previous posts in this thread of movements bearing the same DRP, DRGM, and French patent, but with serial numbers lower than mine. Would this indicate that all three clocks have the same movement, but that mine is a newer clock than the others? I see some variation in the design of the cases.

    I also see that at least one member here (soaringjoy) has a catalogue of LFS clocks. I'm curious whether this one might be in it.

    Does anyone know if, once a DRP or DRGM had been granted, the company would have continued to show those numbers on that movement, or if they would have stopped once the protections expired? I.e. how useful are these numbers for determining the latest possible date of manufacture?

    And anything else anyone can tell me about this clock would be of interest.

    Thanks.

  2. #92
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Quote Originally Posted by cleartheway View Post
    IN addition to the above, I found some kind of signature or potential date on back of dial. Hard to photograph, so including zoom in version as well. By the way, thanks for the edit John and making it look a little better! It appears there is an "11" on the right side. There is also 11 carved into wood case on both top and bottom door and back of clock case.
    Quote Originally Posted by cleartheway View Post
    Thanks Taty! Very cool catalogue pics. A local expert here in Atlanta got back to me yesterday with similar conclusion. Based on their research they gave a larger gap of 1880-1900. I think probably late 90s is great guesstimate. See a lot of similar features from catalogue pieces. Mine probably a little more basic, but nevertheless outstanding piece. I think it's two tone rosewood. Hard to see in pics that half of both the middle and top pieces are different shades. Looks really cool in light. Thanks again for the validation!!!
    Cleartheway, thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your clock. I would concur with Tatyana that this clock would likely be of 1890s vintage, possibly earlier based on the very low serial number stamped on the movement. Unfortunately no-one has yet published any reliable information regarding how LFS managed their serial numbers so we don't have a firm reference base from which to provide accurate dating. The 28 Aug. 1911 date scratched on the back of the dial in my opinion is a repair date, or resale date or something like that and isn't related to when the clock was made except to say the clock could not have been made after that date.

    Very interesting and nice condition.

  3. #93
    Registered user. Tatyana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Hi all!
    Howard, your movement has a patent 776168 (issued 01 April 1921). In my database LFS the lowest number with this patent #68434. I assume the year of manufacture of your clock circa 1925.
    BR, Tatyana

  4. #94
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard S. View Post
    I have an LFS clock, inherited from my great-uncle. Here are a couple of pictures.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	333577Click image for larger version. 

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Size:	271.7 KB 
ID:	333578

    Markings on the movement:

    Plate: Barillets a déboiter séparément sans démontage du mouvement par levée du pont et du rochet. D.R.G.M. 776168

    Stamped/engraved:
    D.R.P. 273703
    D.R.G.M. No 528470
    FR PAT No 456971

    92596

    47

    I see two previous posts in this thread of movements bearing the same DRP, DRGM, and French patent, but with serial numbers lower than mine. Would this indicate that all three clocks have the same movement, but that mine is a newer clock than the others? I see some variation in the design of the cases.

    I also see that at least one member here (soaringjoy) has a catalogue of LFS clocks. I'm curious whether this one might be in it.

    Does anyone know if, once a DRP or DRGM had been granted, the company would have continued to show those numbers on that movement, or if they would have stopped once the protections expired? I.e. how useful are these numbers for determining the latest possible date of manufacture?

    And anything else anyone can tell me about this clock would be of interest.

    Thanks.
    Howard, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your LFS clock. Also, thanks to Tatyana for the information regarding the lowest serial number in his data for the 1921 patent and estimating the date your clock was made.

    I've checked out the patent stamps on the movement and find the following:

    DRGM 528740 Granted 9 Oct. 1912 for removable spring barrels. This was a design/use protection valid for three years from that date and if LFS paid a fee for another three years.

    DRP 273703 Valid from 16 Aug. 1913, granted 6 May 1914 for quarter strike/chime control mechanism that will be on your movement. This was valid for 15 years from file date.

    FR Pat 456971 Valid from 23 Apr. 1913, granted 9 Sept. 1913 for a movement with removable spring barrels. This was also valid for 15 years.

    DRGM 776168 Granted 1 Apr. 1921 for an attachment to improve the removable spring barrel design. Same protection as mentioned above for a DRGM.

    When dating clocks from patent stamps, their grant dates tell you the earliest possible date the movement was made, but not any later date. So, if you find multiple movements with the same DRP stamp but having serial numbers over a range, the movement with the lowest serial number will be the closest to the grant date in age. That is the basis for the information Tatyana provided. I use this technique constantly to home in on "no earlier than" dates corresponding to serial numbers.

    In your case, with multiple patents and use protection grant stamps, the one that has the latest grant date will set the "not earlier than" date for when your movement was made.

    The practice for stamping of use protection and patent grants generally is they will be found on the movements for as long as the grant is valid. Sometimes they run over the expiry date if a number of movements have been made near the end of the validity and sales haven't kept up. In some instances, as can be seen for DRGM 528740, it was long past its extended expiry date of 8 Oct. 1918. The other patents were all still valid at the time your movement was made.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hubby View Post
    Howard, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board!
    Thanks. Great resource here.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hubby View Post
    Thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your LFS clock. Also, thanks to Tatyana for the information regarding the lowest serial number in his data for the 1921 patent and estimating the date your clock was made.
    Yes. A little disappointing, as it pushes the age of my clock younger by maybe a decade. Although it still qualifies as old. This date, however, means that my great-uncle might have been the first owner of the clock.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hubby View Post
    DRGM 776168 Granted 1 Apr. 1921 for an attachment to improve the removable spring barrel design. Same protection as mentioned above for a DRGM.
    As you can see from the photo, that information is on a plate attached to the back frame of the movement, unlike the others, which are stamped on the movement itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hubby View Post
    When dating clocks from patent stamps, their grant dates tell you the earliest possible date the movement was made, but not any later date.
    I was beginning to suspect as much.

    Howard S.
    Last edited by Howard S.; 02-22-2017 at 02:30 PM.

  6. #96
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Here is a treat. A scarce walnut bracket clock. As found, missing a top finial. Appears to have original fabric behind the back brass fret. Great resonating gong.
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  7. #97
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here



    My father picked this up when we were stationed in West Germany in 1961. It's a corner cabinet dated 1904. Only had to replace the suspension spring 3x in 50 years of almost continuous running.
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  8. #98
    Registered user. Tatyana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Hi all!
    CWO, I have a huge request to You - please show the movement of these rare clock. With the numbering from the LFS are not clear, and You are the owner of a clock with the date on the case. It is very valuable to those involved in the study LFS.
    BR, Tatyana

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Hello all. Thought I would add my LFS to this thread. Any assistance with dating is appreciated.

    Thank you.

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  10. #100
    Registered user. Tatyana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Hello, Isgus!
    The largest serial number on the grandfather clock in my database LFS - 159810.
    I would guess that your clock is made in late 1920-ies.
    Very interesting double numbering. I assume that where added lying "0" means incorrect serial number.
    I have a picture with similar serial numbers:
    BR, Tatyana
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  11. #101
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    Thank you Tatyana. You are always very helpful.

  12. #102

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here

    This clock was given to me by a dear friend. It also works. It belonged to his fathers father. When his father died he was 86. Here are a few pics. On the back of the movement its have LFS and the #20.Click image for larger version. 

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