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  1. #16

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    Great quality of movement!
    Jurgen, I see that one time you did complex cleaning action
    Best Regards
    U1

  2. #17
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    Here is my LFS torsion pendulum year-clock, made in mid-late 1880's under license of the Jehlin patent DRP 2437. This patent and other Harder patents were purchsed by H. A. L. DeGruyter from Anton Harder in January 1883. DeGruyter evidently entered into an agreement for license of these to German makers sometime in 1883 with Hugo Knobloch of Berlin, who had been representing Harder since early 1881. There are at least two makers believed to have taken up the license including LFS and Hanau Uhrenfabrik.

    This clock may be unique as no others have yet been identified. If any viewer knows of another such clock, please contact me by PM or email. Although it may be a unique LFS clock, the movement is virtually identical to movements used by J. J. Meister shown in his 1892 Swiss patent No. 05172 for the first temperature compensating pendlum for torsion clocks. I am including a copy of the patent drawing for comparison to the LFS movement.

    Note that the movement is "upside down" with the mainspring barrel at the top and escapement at the bottom. Also, there is no motion works per se, the hour hand is driven from the third wheel and the minute arbor is the usual fourth wheel at the center of the movement. The only significant differences from the Meister drawing are the anchor "pin" is located at the front of the movement to accomodate a back mounting of the movement for a wall clock, and there is no rating adjustment device as shown for the Meister version. Otherwise the movement layout and operation is identical between the two. There is no mark, stamp, or serial number on the movement, other than repair marks, the last one in 1942. A direct comparison with an actual Meister movement will be posted at a later date.

    The pendulum is certainly unique, being two blown glass balls that are internally silvered and then filled with lead shot for mass. The adjusting mechanism is a center rod with cross-bar held in position by a regulating nut (lower) and lock nut (upper). As can be seen the suspension spring is quite long and made of steel. The clock keeps remarkably good time in my home with temperature fluctuations between about 66º F (winter night) to 78º F (summer day). Replacement would be a problem, most likely needing to slit a watch mainspring to get the required length and cross-section.

    The photos below include 1) Front View, 2) Dial, 3) Pendulum & Plaque, 4) Movement back plate, 5) Escapement, 6) Meister Patent, 7) Case back stamps, 8) Palisander
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The case back info includes a paper label above the "21" that gives the case material, "Palisander" or Rosewood. It is actually rosewood veneer but beautifully done with the trim being ebonized mahohany.
    Last edited by John Hubby; 01-04-2012 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Uprighted Palisander photo

  3. #18
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: John Hubby)

    Not bad, John. No, not bad at all!
    A five star post...
    It is indeed a sight, one has to get accustomed to, like the lack of pistons in a Wankel engine.
    Jurgen
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  4. #19

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    This LFS clock is housed in a very simple and plain looking case.

    The 2-train 8-day movement and the gong are of very good quality.

    The silvered metal dial has engraved Arabic numerals.

    Mun C.W.

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    .

  5. #20
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Mun, I suppose this is your clock, the model 760a, from an undated
    catalogue. The clock was also offered with a three train 3/4 or 4/4
    Westminster movement.
    Just post WW 1, I guess, 1920, perhaps.
    The movement is a 14 day type.
    Jurgen

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    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  6. #21

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    Quote Originally Posted by soaringjoy View Post
    Mun, I suppose this is your clock, the model 760a, from an undated
    catalogue. The clock was also offered with a three train 3/4 or 4/4
    Westminster movement.
    Just post WW 1, I guess, 1920, perhaps.
    The movement is a 14 day type.
    Jurgen

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hello Jurgen,

    Thanks for providing useful catalogue information on my clock.
    I had always assumed it is a 7 or 8 day clock and not a 14-day clock
    as I alwalys wind it every week together with my other 7-day wall
    clocks.

    The bevelled diamond pattern on half the front glass shown in the catalogue picture
    is very attractive. I have come across a very similar model but with the entire
    front glass decorated with bevelled diamond pattern along with brass strip inlaid.
    I cannot say for sure if the plain glass of my clock is a replacement or it
    was originally fitted as I do not find any sign that it had been replaced.

    While the case may look plain and simple however the quality of the carpentry work is of the highest order .
    Overall I would rate LFS clocks as among the best mass produced German made clocks.

    LFS paid merticulous attention in making many of the clock parts including small
    ones such as the fly shown below with the movable weight to regulate the speed of the strike train.

    Mun C.W.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #22
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    It's always a treat for me to see all the small fine details, the movements
    show up with.
    The thumb screw for the pendulum spring, for instance.
    Jurgen
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    This clock was dropped off at our thrift store of the retirement home run by fellow residents. I was asked to do some research prior to offering it for sale.
    The clock was from an unknown donor and was well packed for storage, stuffed with 1988 New York Times newspaper. Several people seemed to have some clue where it came from, but none of their stories added up to fit the circumstances. I later saw a pencil name on the back of the pendulum which tied it to a resident who had recently died. She had moved into the complex around the period of the newspaper and she and her husband had a substantial collection. I helped her with a couple after the move in, but she tended to be a recluse and didn't socialize often.The clock is 31 inches tall and 15 inches wide .
    The movement is three train with what I would term a modified Grande Sonnerie. It strikes all of the quarters on two gong bim-bam. They are followed only on the hour and the half hour with the strike, also on another two rods struck together.
    There are a number of strange things about this clock.
    The trade mark matches the one registered 1881 and is about 3/10th of an inch or 7.5 cm.The serial number (?) under the trade mark 418 is also very low. In smaller stamp you can see 47 off to the right.
    There is a grey iron casting for the gong base with which adds the letters A G below but within the teeth circle. This would indicate 1895 as the earliest dating.
    Does any of this help with dating?
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    Charlie Davis, La Verne, CA
    http://www.JapaneseClockLogos.com

  9. #24
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: Charles E. Davis)

    Nice to see you dropping in here, Charlie.

    You have already gathered information about the company
    and the movement, which unfortunately may be everything
    you can get.
    The reason is because, although the LFS company and family histories
    have been documented very well and most completely, there is almost
    no information available for the public on movement types or clock models.
    Most archive documents were lost or tossed after the liquidation.
    LFS was in fact much more innovative in constructing their movements, than,
    for example other well known quality-makers of the time. I suppose, they enjoyed
    playing around with designs, improvements, etc., even in tiny details.
    To make things worse for researching certain specific clocks, is that LFS had always
    had their own casemaking facility and their designs were quite often "off" of the
    mainstreams. Some of their models appear to be "younger", than they actually are,
    others look "older". All of this makes dating extremely difficult, almost always ending
    up in guesstimates. IMHO, the clock you show might be ca. 1910, according to the
    fashionable geometric patterns.
    I have not seen that (horo-sexy) movement before, but it suggests, LFS used a new
    series of SNs on new movement types. It may be a link between known petite
    sonnerie and 4/4 chiming movements. The 47 is pendulum length in cm.

    And yes, the company was changed to an Aktiengesellschaft (AG),
    a stock holders corporation, in 1895.

    BTW:
    There are about 1000 articles concerning LFS (excluding ads) in the DUZ and I am just
    starting to try to find some loose ends.

    Jurgen
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  10. #25

    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Quote Originally Posted by MUN CHOR-WENG View Post


    The bevelled diamond pattern on half the front glass shown in the catalogue picture
    is very attractive. I have come across a very similar model but with the entire
    front glass decorated with bevelled diamond pattern along with brass strip inlaid.


    Mun C.W.
    I contacted the clock owner Mr Lau Cheong Wong to get some pictures of that clock for posting ( with his permission ) on the MB. He kindly oblidged and on receiving the pictures I found that the design of the lower front glass panel of the clock was the same as the one shown in catalogue picture provided by Jurgen. It is therefore unlike the one that I had described in my earlier post. I apologize for providing the wrong discription.

    Anyway, pictures of that clock are shown below.
    The serial number on the back plate is 91646, a difference of 124 units as compared with my clock s/n 91522 .

    Mun C.W.
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  11. #26
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Bingo, Mun, bullseye!
    Jurgen
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  12. #27
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    Yesterday, I had received a hanging clock with an excellent + unusual "piggy-back" 1/4 chiming movement (similar to Jurgen's). The clock arrived from the UK, everything intact. Here are some photos of the movement, I'd like to post photos of the Vienna style case later.
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  13. #28
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: Chris Radano)

    Thanks for sharing, Chris.
    I am hoping to post a "regular" 4/4 Westminster soon; chimes on rods, strike on
    a coil gong.
    In the meantime, I've finished this plainer type of "box clock", mid 1920s, I presume.
    The movement already has quick out barrels and the pic shows the pounds of "gunk" in
    the barrels - a good example for the cleaning necessity of springs.
    Again, I must note, the sound and resonance of this simple coil gong makes my standard (big)
    DUFA with its Largo Gong sound "cheap"...


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    Last edited by soaringjoy; 03-24-2012 at 09:37 AM.
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

  14. #29
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: soaringjoy)

    Here are some more photos of the 1/4 chiming clock above. Date 1920s.

    Mahogany Vienna-style case is 34" H (needs touch-up). Vienna-style pendulum bob filled with large sized shot. One thing I noticed, was even the insides of the cast wall stabilizers are signed between the screw holes.

    Sorry the murky appearance of some of the photos. I thank our bright, clear, dry weather (sarcasm!)
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  15. #30
    Registered User soaringjoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post your LFS clocks here (By: Chris Radano)

    I would think your clock is pre WW 1, Chris.
    LFS were very creative and innovative in case designs and well ahead of the mainstream.
    The case model is shown, is some minor changes in details, in a 1915 catalogue,
    all along with the rectangular glass panels on the sides.
    Then, consider, the Westminster movements came up in Germany, about 1908,
    which may have led LFS to "improvise" a movement, while designing a new one.
    That new "regular" three train movement must have appeared some time later.
    What I can already say now, is that it's pretty big and heavy...
    Jurgen "tempus nostrum"

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