Goal: $300, Received: $305.00 (102%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.



Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26
  1. #16

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: alanwh)

    The tube type take about 1v signal to fire the tube where as the Pc receiver only needs about 1/4v signal.

  2. #17
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,031

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: caperace)

    The motors are date coded, and would usually be replaced along with the movement, so it should be possible to tell which are original movements.
    If you are mechanically inclined enough to remove the movements, strip them, and clean them properly, you will have a better chance of keeping them running. In the process you will learn why they are failing, and which key parts are wearing out.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  3. #18

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: harold bain)

    I took a look around today and could not find any movements that were original, they all have “’88” scratched into them. I have no idea why every single one was replaced, but I can tell you that Simplex probably did these the same time the “new” master clock was installed. The school had some sort of contract with them as they also installed and managed our fire alarm system up until the late 90s. Likewise, I can’t find any motors that were from 1976 and on the plus side, I can’t find any broken ones.

    The head custodian told me that Simplex wanted to replace all the clocks with non-frequency ones and after they said that and merged with Grinell, the school no longer worked with them. The school hasn’t made nay sort of communication with Simplex since 1998. (The only reason I know that is because our address changed in ’98 and Simplex had no record of that).

    I did take one of the broken clock’s movements apart. Here’s what I found: none of the gears appeared to be worn down. However, they appeared to be misaligned and covered in gunk. What’s the best way to clean these and put them back together?

    Thanks

  4. #19
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,031

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: alanwh)

    Soak them in paint thinner overnight then brush them off. The gears can't be misaligned unless there is wear/broken pieces.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  5. #20

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: alanwh)

    Are you saying that all the motors are working, but the clocks are not keeping the correct time? Simplex took the fall for a lot of things, customer when the have money problems always want to blame someone other than themselves, school systems have a lot of people between the custodian and the superintendent of schools and the sales and service reps had to deal with them all and each had a different story. Some school system were well run and budgeted for the clock systems and others just took a chance they would have money to repair or replace their equipment, which in most cases thay did not have. In the middle of the school year when the equipment failed and there was no money who was the bad guy? My experience with 38 years at Simplex pre Grinelle (Tyco) was that it was a Family owned business and their name and reputation meant quite a lot.
    Those movements were a vendor item and sometimes there were defects, the metal was soft and the plates were worn at the pivot points, in some cases all the movements were replaced.

  6. #21
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,031

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: caperace)

    Jim, these Hansen movements from the 1950-60's were much better quality than they were in the 1980-90's. I always oiled these clocks and movements before installing them, and this really extended their run time before breaking down. Also a dab of grease on the ratchet arbor kept the arbor from tunnelling into the plate.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  7. #22

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: harold bain)

    Mare clarification:

    The school has 60 clocks from about 1976. Though the clocks are original today, here’s two thing that Simplex did for maintenance purposes:
    -Late 80s: replaced all the movements in all the clocks.
    -1995: replaced some receivers in the clocks with PC board receivers.

    The new master clock was installed at the same time time as the new movements. I can only deduce that maybe a failure with the master clock caused all the clocks to stay in their correction cycle for an extended period and ruined the movements. I believe it was right about then too that the transformer outside the building exploded and a lot of the electrical equipment inside the school was damaged which may have damaged either the clocks or the master clock.

    Jim, I don’t think the school blamed Simplex for anything. To my knowledge they had a great relationship with them, especially as a local company. I believe it was in the late 90s Simplex stopped manufacturing the PC boards for the clocks and recommended that my school switch to their newer models. With the building’s layout, that wasn’t really feasible and would have cost tens of thousands of dollars, which is why they stopped servicing them.

    Here’s a better explanation of my current problems:
    -20 clocks work perfectly and sync correctly.
    -30 of them have completely stopped. I thought it was motor failure, but its because the gears in the movements seem to have stopped/jammed. Compressed air, grease, and a push with a screwdriver got these clocks back up and running (seemingly permanently) and I’m still working on them.
    -The remainder no longer sync up but turn just fine. They either exhibit one of two problems: The solenoid closes when triggered, but does not make enough contact with the gears to initiate a correction cycle. Or, the solenoid doesn’t close at all or long enough. This is either as a result of receiver failure or the generator is failing.

    Jim recommended that I use a test clock to see if they aren’t triggering due to the generator not sending out a strong enough signal, which is something I’m working on. Another thing he recommended was replacing a part of the solenoid and adjusting its position on the clock. I’ll let everyone know how this turns out.

    The only remaining problem I can’t solve is how to reassemble one of the movements. I disassembled one of the movements to a clock that I know was already broken, but I can’t get the gears back into place.

    Thanks everyone!
    -> posts merged by system <-
    I forgot one thing: about 5 of them exhibit a weird problem: They appear to work just fine, until the second hand reaches the “12” on the clock. The second hand will stop and be impossible to move forward (even if you physically try to move the second hand forward). If I turn the clock backwards and plug it back in, it will work just fine, until the second hand reaches the 12.

  8. #23
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,031

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: alanwh)

    You are going to have to learn how these clocks work by watching one that does, and comparing it to those that don't. There is a little brass spring on the bottom of the lever that rides on the smooth disc beside the ratchet wheel. This stops the second hand to sync it during correction. Either the spring is bent, or the clock is still in correction. Forcing the second hand past this just bends that spring piece.
    To put them back together you will need a spring hook. It looks like a dental tool formed into a hook. This is to put the three springs back in place AFTER you have the gears assembled and the plate back on.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  9. #24

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: alanwh)

    The master clock would not fail and keep the clocks in correction, what might have happened was that someone turned on the generator switch and then held the sync switch on for longer than 12 seconds, this might cause the sector to hang up if they were not adjusted correctly, but would not cause any harm to the clocks. If the transformer caused damage to the system the power company or the school insurance would be liable and the service contract if they had one would not cover the repair. Therefore a replacement would be the best recommendation. The classroom panels were not a shelf item they would have to be made special and would take some time. In order to get the system up and running, rebuilding the panels would be suggested and the movements along with the receivers would be replaced. The pc type receivers would be used as the tube type were not available. The correction coils probably would not be replaced, but the sectors would be replaced, the reason for this is the adjustments could be time consuming.The other reason for using the pc receivers is they fire on a lot less signal. If they had a motor generator and not a signal transmitter or mini generator, they would have had a field engineer come from headquarters to service the generator as this was not something most offices would tackle on their own. The generator control panel would have been serviced and relays etc. replaced at this time.
    With that said!
    Are the 20 clock that are working are they in the same area or scattered throught out the building?
    There are 30 you feel you can repair by cleaning.
    That leaves about 10 that need to be trouble shot.

    Get a good receiver and use that to trouble shoot for bad receivers.
    I think if you short between terminals 2 and 7 on the tube base with a screwdriver you can fire the tube. Some one can correct me if I'm wrong. The pot on the pc type receivers can be turned up and down, but you would need a signal generator to do these adjustments, you could try turning them in one direction or the other to see if you are turning it up or down, but remember sometimes if you turn it up or down to far you might not fire the receiver all, so don't go all the way in either direction.

    This should be enough to get you started, maybe some of the others can add to the list.
    Last edited by caperace; 12-09-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  10. #25
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,031

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: caperace)

    Jim, I've serviced the large motor generators a few times. About all they ever needed was new roller bearings, which was a relatively easy job.
    Yes, the tube contacts can be shorted to simulate correction. I don't recall which terminals either. I've also found moving the two coils closer together increases sensitivity, and they pick on lower signal voltage. The gap at the bottom of the correction solenoid is critical as well. Should be minimal, but there does need to be a gap. These clocks are difficult to work on without a signal generator and a signal level meter to simulate correction, and test how much signal is being received by the clock.
    One of the school boards I serviced in the 1970's had 20 of these systems, some IBM, some Simplex. They had upgraded older high schools with electronics to save the cost of hard wiring for impulse or wired sync clocks, going back to when IBM had the contract.
    Last edited by harold bain; 12-09-2011 at 04:49 PM.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  11. #26

    Default Re: Repairing a school's Simplex Clocks (Frequency Synced) (By: harold bain)

    FWIW: Here's the schematic to an IBM Slave Clock (circa 1960s?) that I came across and thought I would append here as a reference for someone else, since the previous posted pictures resemble the circuit board (pictures 1 and 2 of original post):

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IBM Clock Schematic.png 
Views:	6 
Size:	401.1 KB 
ID:	334235

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-02-2006, 06:38 PM
  2. Need winding arbor repair or replacement for Binkosha clock
    By Seth Thomas Fan in forum Clock Repair
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-07-2006, 12:03 PM
  3. Repair Of 1870 Quail Cuckoo Clock In Los Angeles Area
    By Robertsclocks in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-06-2003, 03:56 AM
  4. Repairing a French Swinging Mystery Clock
    By Lincolnhill in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-11-2002, 09:07 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •