Wheel instead of gathering pallet

[Randy Hirst]

I assume the wheel behind the one that is acting as the gathering pallet is the one driving it. I'm thinking that when the one with the screw lifts, it may be lifting just a hair too high and losing the mesh with the driver, thus freewheeling and dropping back to allow another strike. Pure speculation on my part.
-> posts merged by system <-
Is the gathering gear jumping forward or backward when it falls back into the rack? It happens too fast on the video for me to tell

[al_taka]

Thanks Robert for showing such a different movement, I love it. Great video's and stills.

My take on this:
I think the timing should be changed to allow the gathering gear to walk onto the rack further before the stop pin is engaged. I would suspect having 2 teeth of the gathering gear would lock it nicely.

Also it seems the fly governor isn't slipping to absorb the impact of stopping. This rattles the gathering gear off its step and back onto the 1 oclock rack tooth and the process keeps repeating itself.

I'm looking forward to your solution.

[bangster]

I didn't mean the rack is installed wrong; I meant that it's ass-backwards from the norm. And I still cain't make sense of the contraption. Videos don't help me.

Why is the hook lever being held down (up) during the videos?

Does the "gathering wheel" turn on its axis, or does it stay fixed in one position?

If it turns, what turns it? It rocks back and forth with the lever it's attached to. Does it stay in mesh with a driving wheel during the rocking?

Is the gathering wheel actually raising the rack?

What holds the rack from falling after the last tooth is gathered? The wheel?

What causes the train to arrest after the last tooth is gathered?

WHY WOULD ANYBODY RE-INVENT THE RACK & SNAIL STRIKE IN THIS INCOMPREHENSIBLE WAY?

[Talyinka]

This is a very enjoyable movement :-).

I was wondering how worn the rack pin/bushing bearing is. It is obvious that the gathering wheel doesn't mesh correctly with the rack at the top of the rack movement as several have pointed out. Identifying the cause of this would be my first step.

[shutterbug]

I notice in the video that one wheel behind the plate (window behind the GP) is rocking back and forth. It looks like an EW, but don't think it is. Not sure what it's function might be. The clock strikes 14 times without the snail in place, which leads me to believe that the gathering wheel is functioning correctly (at first I thought it was added by a tinkerer). As Bang points out, it is also not fixed and moves with the lever. Very strange movement.

[Watchfixer]

Much better.

The mesh is too deep and is touching other warning cam or something making the gathering gear to rock. Shouldn't do this. Why is this detent arm held up by the string? This should be helping with the rack by detenting the rack during gathering period while striking.

Cheers, Watchfixer

[RobertG]

First, I want to thank everyone here for making me feel less incompetent. I was thinking I was the only one that found this design incomprehensible.


Now I will try to run through as many of the questions that have been asked as I can. If I miss one it is either because it has already been answered by another posting, or I have no idea how to answer it.


Harold: Is that screw on the gear eccentric, possibly a depth adjustment? No, it is just a plain straight bolt.


Watchfixer: The peg on the wheel is leaning to one side, shouldn't that be upright? I am not sure to which peg you are referring.
Bangster: What is supposed to raise the rack? (Since nothing does in the video.) The rack is raised by a pin on the back of the hour wheel which is too hidden to be photographed or on video. In fact, there are two pins on the back of this wheel. One lifts the rack for the hour strike, and the other lifts the rack for the half-hour strike.


David: You don't mention what kind of a case this goes into but I'm guessing a grandfather? Yes, this is a chain driven GF.


Moe1942: I also believe it is on a square drive arbor. If I could see some good shots of the interior I would have a better clue. The arbor is round, not square. Of what exactly would you like to see more photos? I am happy to provide them if I can.


Randy: Is the gathering gear jumping forward or backward when it falls back into the rack? It happens too fast on the video for me to tell. I am not sure what you are asking. The gathering pinion moves to the left on its arm to release the rack, then drops back to the right again to mesh with the rack teeth. I am just learning to edit video. I will see if I can learn how to slow the motion down. Please use the link to “Rack Action Slowed 50%”. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz_XYHo6zDY"]Rack action slowed 50 percent - YouTube[/ame]


Randy: I assume the wheel behind the one that is acting as the gathering pallet is the one driving it. Yes, that is correct. The driving pinion is not visible because of the rack.


Al Taka: Also it seems the fly governor isn't slipping to absorb the impact of stopping. The fan doesn’t slip at all and that is how it is designed. Instead, it has wings that extend as it spins, slowing the action. Please use the link to the video “Fan Unfolding Slowed to 15%”. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaDsrpqX0rg"]Fan unfolding slowed to 15 percent - YouTube[/ame]

Bangster: Why is the hook lever being held down (up) during the videos? Because it is simply a locking mechanism to quiet the strike. LaBounty was the one to recognize this function.

Does the "gathering wheel" turn on its axis, or does it stay fixed in one position? It rotates on its axis.

If it turns, what turns it? It rocks back and forth with the lever it's attached to. Does it stay in mesh with a driving wheel during the rocking? It is rotated by a pinion hidden behind the rack. It moves away from the rack, thus releasing the rack, then moves back into place to count the strike.

Is the gathering wheel actually raising the rack? No, a pin behind the hour wheel raises the rack.
What holds the rack from falling after the last tooth is gathered? The wheel? Look at this video. It is the same one at the very beginning of the post, but I have managed to rotate it to its proper perspective and slowed it down. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pALJOnHps&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]Internal motion slowed to 40 percent.flv - YouTube[/ame]

What causes the train to arrest after the last tooth is gathered? There is a pin on the fourth wheel that stops the motion.

WHY WOULD ANYBODY RE-INVENT THE RACK & SNAIL STRIKE IN THIS INCOMPREHENSIBLE WAY? I haven’t a clue, but I can only assume it was comprehensible to the guy that designed it!

RobertG

[Watchfixer]

During striking the lever that held the idler gear against the rack is moving slowly up and down slightly as it run it's course. Supposed not to do this. See if there a worn stop for that lever that holds the idler gear certain distance (aka depthing) between two gears aka: correct meshing, not too deep or shallow meshing.

I'm talking about steel pin on one wheel is leaning to one side see this be straight up on 90 deg to the wheel's. There is many reasons there were hacks on this mechanism that was bugging you.

I find this brilliant rack mechanism. Does not looks complex.

Cheers, Watchfixer

[bangster]

If it turns, what turns it? It rocks back and forth with the lever it's attached to. Does it stay in mesh with a driving wheel during the rocking? It is rotated by a pinion hidden behind the rack. It moves away from the rack, thus releasing the rack, then moves back into place to count the strike.

Is the gathering wheel actually raising the rack? No, a pin behind the hour wheel raises the rack.
What holds the rack from falling after the last tooth is gathered? The wheel? Look at this video. It is the same one at the very beginning of the post, but I have managed to rotate it to its proper perspective and slowed it down.

Am I asking the wrong questions? Here's what I've been assuming:
1.Most of the time, the rack is in the "up" position.
2.At warning, the rack drops until the rack tail hits the snail, determining the number of teeth to be gathered.
3.When strike begins, the rack is elevated (raised) one tooth at a time, until the strike is finished.
4.At that point, the strike train locks and the rack is once again in the "up" position.

The hour wheel rotates once in 24 hours. A pin on it will have an effect only once a day.
The minute wheel rotates once in 60 minutes. A pin on it will have an effect only once an hour.

Neither of those can be what elevates (raises) the rack one tooth at a time to regulate the strike (assumption 3).

What does? Or are my assumptions completely wrong?

[Watchfixer]

Does not matter! As long as a geared or gathering rack determines the number of strikes by the how far the "rack" feels the snail steps sets the number of strikes on the gong/bell. That it!

Could be a string attached to the lever and other end of string wound on the spool that is released to touch the snail, gear, or a gathering pin or hook. Hey, look at that count wheel. That's another way of doing the Nth strike by how far the count wheel traveled.

Cheers, Watchfixer

[RobertG]

The hour wheel rotates once in 24 hours. A pin on it will have an effect only once a day.
The minute wheel rotates once in 60 minutes. A pin on it will have an effect only once an hour.

Neither of those can be what elevates (raises) the rack one tooth at a time to regulate the strike (assumption 3).

What does? Or are my assumptions completely wrong?

Bangster: It seems I have a typo in my last, long, response. The the two pins are on the back of the minute wheel, not the hour wheel. My apologies to all. I wrote that long response in Word, copying and pasting from the MB and flipping from video to video on YouTube to insert the video links. I found the whole process very confusing, and I screwed up as a result.

Again, there are two pins on the minute wheel, one for the hour and one for the half-hour.

RobertG
-> posts merged by system <-

During striking the lever that held the idler gear against the rack is moving slowly up and down slightly as it run it's course. Supposed not to do this. See if there a worn stop for that lever that holds the idler gear certain distance (aka depthing) between two gears aka: correct meshing, not too deep or shallow meshing.

I'm talking about steel pin on one wheel is leaning to one side see this be straight up on 90 deg to the wheel's. There is many reasons there were hacks on this mechanism that was bugging you.
I find this brilliant rack mechanism. Does not looks complex.
Cheers, Watchfixer

Watchfixer: The idler gear against the rack is on a post, there is no stop. The idler gear rises and falls so it can ride over the teeth of the rack. There is an adjustable shelf that limits the drop of the rack. I will try to raise that just a hair's distance to see if that eliminates the rise and fall of the pinion.

Again, I do not understand which bent pin you are referring to. Can you give me the link to the photo showing the bent pin or the name of the photo so I can see which pin you mean?

Thank you for all your input and advice, everyone.

RobertG

[shutterbug]

The hour wheel rotates once in 24 hours. A pin on it will have an effect only once a day.

I'm thinking twice

[RobertG]

I have pulled the center arbor to you can see the minute wheel with the two strike activating pins on its back and the flange that controls the half-hour strike via a pin on the back arm of the rack tail.

RobertG

[Watchfixer]

I'm talking about the pin on the *wheel* of the striking train, this is 3rd from the fly. This is stopping on the stop. Both are bent and not looking nice.

Pin should be standing straight not leaning and the stop should be straight not at an angle.

Cheers, Watchfixer

[RobertG]

Watchfixer:

Thank you! I will correct this. I have also straightened the bent pin on the minute wheel.

RobertG