Private Label Rockford

[Michael R. Dutton]

This private label Rockford is listed in the Chapter 149 database as a model 3, but according to the article by Darrah G. Artzner it looks more like a model 2. The movement is lever set, stem wound and key wound. The cuvette is not drilled for the key. The movement serial number is 162354. The movement is signed J. Karr on the plate and Washington, DC on the barrel bridge. The movement is also signed Patented Pinion.

The front and back covers of the gold hunter case are signed J. Karr, 18 K, with a serial number of 16913. The back of the cuvette shows the same serial number with a hallmark. A friend thinks it is English, from Chester. The bow, which is still stiff, is stamped with 585.

One of the case mounting screws is a round head, polished screw while most of the other screws are blued.

Underneath the balance wheel engraved on the plate looks like "Pat. June ??74." It is very hard to see and I am not sure if it shows up in my photographs.

The movment winds easily, starts right away, and sets smoothly when the lever is pulled out.

The dial has some hairlines that are difficult to see with the naked eye, but show up at about 5x magnification. The dial is signed with "Rockford Watch Co. Illinois" and has a single sunk sub-second hand and chapter at the 6 O'clock position. The hours on the dial are indicated with Roman numerals.

This is a presentation watch and the cuvette is engraved:

From the President of the United States of America to Captain (initials I can not make out) Franzen of the German steamship "SUEVIA" for his humane services in rescuing the Master and the Crew of the American schooner "Carl W. Baxter." January 18, 1885.

An article from the New York Times tells of the bad weather and the heroic rescue.

J. Karr was a jeweler, watchmaker, silversmith, in Washington, D.C. He was the exclusive dealer for Rockford watches in Washington, D.C. He had several patents for an escapement design and a chronometer design, and for some silver collectible spoons. I've seen photos of the escapement model and of his American Chronometer movements serial 1 and 2. There have been some articles written in NAWCC bulletins about Karr. He was also the time keeper for the US Senate and he worked at the Naval Observatory.

Jacob Karr was my Great-Great-Grandfather.

The photos below tell more than I could possibly say in my description above:

[John Pavlik]

Michael,
I do not think your case is English. Hallmarks are very distinct and this is not one of them.. I would guess your case was made by a small US case maker. Maybe exclusively used by Karr... One other note, do not be concerned by not having the dial marked by the Jeweler Karr, many Rockfords I have are marked this way. Movement only.. Very nice watch...

[Jeff Hess]

Superior find! PRiceless ! This should be in a museum! I am jealous!
Not English.. American all the way!
Jeff congrats!

[Tom Huber]

Mike, Great watch. I'm saying it is a model 2. From my experience with Rockfords, the key is the mounting bracket on the plate for the hairspring stud. The model 3 has the hairspring stud mounted into the balance cock.

As for the key wind arbor on a stemwind watch. Over the years, I have been told by many watchmakers and collectors that this arbor on a stemwind watch was to use up parts. Watch companies did not throw anything away that was useable. The transition to stemwind was rather quick and this was a way to use up the keywind parts on a stemwind watch.

Tom

[HenryB]

Nice find Michael

I could whine and state that since it is a PL, thats why it does not follow the "list".

However, I simply to not have enough data gathered through consistant observations to dispute the Rockford "list" either.

Kinda curious which has more observation mistakes, the Rockford "list" or the Waltham "Greybook"

[Michael R. Dutton]

Nice find Michael

I could whine and state that since it is a PL, thats why it does not follow the "list".

However, I simply to not have enough data gathered through consistant observations to dispute the Rockford "list" either.

Kinda curious which has more observation mistakes, the Rockford "list" or the Waltham "Greybook"

One thing for sure, Henry, one should always trend toward believing the watch.

I certainly don't have enough Rockford movements or Waltham movemens to make such an observation. However in both cases I have run across just about an equal number of errors............

[Michael R. Dutton]

Superior find! PRiceless ! This should be in a museum! I am jealous!
Not English.. American all the way!
Jeff congrats!

When the package arrived, my wife had to sign for it. I could not properly hold a pen. I had to sit and look at the box, calm down for a while and, then open the well wrapped box.

Depending on how my younger family members react to such things as this; the watch very well could end up in a museum but not for a while. I'm planning on admiring this for at least another 20 years...!!

A few folks may be able to see it this next month at the next Chapter 34 meeting in Williamsburg, VA. I'll be at the meeting. But, I am still working through my mind what to bring and what not to bring.......

Thanks, Jeff, I appreciate your comments! Yes, it is priceless as is any family heirloom! My task ahead of me is to search the United States procurement records and get a bit for information. Back then it would have been entirely possible for the President, himself, to walk into Jacob Karr's store and order this watch.

I have Washington Post archival newspaper articles in which Karr talks about Abe Lincoln being one of his best customers!

[Michael R. Dutton]

..............
Underneath the balance wheel engraved on the plate looks like "Pat. June ??74." It is very hard to see and I am not sure if it shows up in my photographs.

Are there any ROCKFORD collectors who might be able to tell me the date that is engraved under the balance wheel?

Also, can someone please tell me, to the best of their knowledge, the jewel count for this movement?

Thanks so much!! Being an amateur collector, I still have so much to learn.

[Bill B]

The date would be 1874, this movement would be 11-15 jewels, depending whether the piller plate is jeweled. You can only tell for sure by removing the dial and counting the jewels there. I would guess that is a 15 jewel movement. Hope this helps.

[Michael R. Dutton]

Thanks, Bill, that does help! Would you know what the patent is all about? For the movement, for the pinion? Or for some other feature of the movement?

One of these days, then, the dial shall be removed, the pillar plate examined and the exact jewel count determined. Might be in a month or so.

Again, thanks!

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Michael,

If I recall correctly, the pat date refers to Hurd's patent regulator. Hurd also designed another regulator much later that was used on some Aurora watches.

Greg

[Kevin Scott]

Micheal, I wonder if your great grandfather did the inscription on the watch? What happened to his store?
Kevin Scott

[Michael R. Dutton]

I am trying to figure out how to find the purchase records from the US Gov't Executive branch to J. Karr's Jewelry store.

I would like to presume that the engraving was done at Karr's store, but I may never know for sure. I think the purchase record might answer that question.

J. Karr's became J. Karr's Sons, but just when that happened, I am not sure. Jacob Karr died in 1917, but I think he retired around 1915 or so. There is some anecdotal information that in addition to being a watchmaker and jeweler, he was also involved as a hotelier and restauranteur.

I need to find his will and I understand that it is on file with Washington, D.C. probate court. I think finding his will might be easier than finding the procurement purchase order for the watch. I am trying to get some help on that from Senator Webb's office in Virginia Beach, but that is not starting out smoothly. (Could be my approach is wrong.)