Moody junghans won't keep running

[bangster]

This clock has me seriously annoyed. A while back I serviced it for a client, ran it on my wall for a week before I gave it back to him. When he took it home, it kept stopping. Went to his place to look at it...it would run for a few minutes and then quit.

Brought it back to my shop, hung it on wall, carefully adjusted beat, started it up...it ran for a few minutes and then quit. Only thing I could think of was power loss. New time & strike mainsprings, so they're OK. Took it back apart, re-polished all the pivots, carefully examined for bent pivots, found one that looked MAYBE suspicious and trued it up. All bushings OK. Put it back together, re-lubed it, ran it 3 days on the stand without hands or dial. Everything peachy.

Stuck it back in the case sans dial. Ran for a day and quit: hour cannon had migrated forward and jammed against the washer on the minute wheel. Got proper washers on handshaft to hold hour cannon in place. Ran flawlessly in the case for a week.

Put dial back on, hands back on, back into case for final test run. Ran fine for six days...and quit. Re-starting didn't work. Re-winding didn't work. Run for a bit and quit.

It's now back on the test stand, and had been not-stopping for about 10 minutes when I left it to write this.

Pendulum amplitude is VERY weak... about 1/2 inch total motion at the tip of the rating screw. I have a notion that if it had a more robust swing, it would manage to keep itself running. But that's just a notion, and anyhow I don't know how to increase the swing.

SO...I have once again come to y'all, my brothers and sisters, looking for suggestions and ideas. What are some things I might do to get this son of Beelzebub to behave?

All proposals welcomed.



bangster

[shutterbug]

Could you take a pic of the anchor and EW relationship? (I know that's asking for a lot )

[Scottie-TX]

This will be a judgment call on your part. Again, isolate problem and decide:
1. Is it receiving enough power at the EW
If not, pursue power problem.
2. It is receiving enough power at the EW.
Pursue escapement problem. A half inch is not NEAR enough swing even if it's deadbeat or a short pendulum mantle clock and I'm sure it's neither. I'm sure it has little overswing if any.
Do you have a power problem or an escapement problem?

[bangster]

This will be a judgment call on your part. Again, isolate problem and decide:
1. Is it receiving enough power at the EW
If not, pursue power problem.
2. It is receiving enough power at the EW.
Pursue escapement problem. A half inch is not NEAR enough swing even if it's deadbeat or a short pendulum mantle clock and I'm sure it's neither. I'm sure it has little overswing if any.
Do you have a power problem or an escapement problem?

Gimme a clue how to assess power at EW. As I said, I did everthing I could think of eliminate power-robbing. Did I miss anything there?

b.

[Scottie-TX]

Not knocking your approach but I call it a shotgun approach. You don't know what's wrong so you do a LOTTA stuff. Alas you may have still missed the key problem.
A clue? Best clue is when it stops and won't restart. If you have the luxury of it stopping predictably, your best clue will be watching it stop and analyzing why. A wheel with NO power will not advance at stoppage. Can you observe that? Some, ya gotta sneak up on. After stopping, GENTLY move pendulum(don't release it - just move it). Does wheel advance? Can you detect that the wheel advances feebly ?

[wow]

The photo shows that the crutch has rubbed on the plate in the past. Are you sure the crutch is adjusted so the leader hangs in the center of the slot?

Also, have you removed the leader and pendulum, and tested it to see if it will run with only the crutch? If it doesn't, there is a power problem.

Try removing the anchor and let it run free. Does it slow down and speed up during the free run? If so, there is a power problem.

Remove the hour tube from the front and run it. If it doesn't keep running, there's your problem. Something is binding.

You have probably tried all these, but I am just typing as I think. That's all I can think of for now.

Good Luck,
Will

[Scottie-TX]

Some faultless movements will run reliably with a pendulum and yet not freerun. Some faulty movements will freerun and not run with a pendulum.
Most all movements will spin the escape wheel at a high rate under full power without an anchor, even with problems. The better test is to let down power entirely and power train manually with fingers.

[bangster]

Not knocking your approach but I call it a shotgun approach. You don't know what's wrong so you do a LOTTA stuff. Alas you may have still missed the key problem.
A clue? Best clue is when it stops and won't restart. If you have the luxury of it stopping predictably, your best clue will be watching it stop and analyzing why. A wheel with NO power will not advance at stoppage. Can you observe that? Some, ya gotta sneak up on. After stopping, GENTLY move pendulum(don't release it - just move it). Does wheel advance? Can you detect that the wheel advances feebly ?

Oh hell, I know that...done that. Here's what I observed last time it quit here on the stand: slight pendulum swing, pallets rocking in the EW, EW not moving. Move pendulum to lift pallet, EW moves, clock runs. So...EW got some power at stoppage...but not enuf to push off the pallet.

Only 4 wheels (counting EW) in the dang train. Got a new mainspring. Just had it apart again, and couldn't discover any power-bandit. What am I missing?HOW do I increase pendulum swing?? Get mo' power to EW?? WTF.

[shutterbug]

I'd eliminate the spring - it should run on full wind even if the spring were bad. When it stops, start at the top wheel, and work down. They should be free if there's a power problem .... except the one causing the problem. I'm sure you've double checked for a bent pivot. So we're back to power or escapement. Still want to see how the anchor is adjusted
Double check for bent teeth, and don't assume it's in the time train. The strike side can be causing the time train to stop if it's encountering a lot of resistance to lift. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to pull the strike train clear out of the picture, just to eliminate it as the culprit. Also, pulling the anchor isn't a bad idea, but you need to use your thumb to let the EW start, stop, start, stop to observe it. If it hesitates on the start-up, it's a power problem.

[Scottie-TX]

This is a HUGE key, depending on EXACtly what you observed:

pallets rocking in the EW

"rocking": When pallets were rocking, was there a tooth against either one, rocking with it or was wheel stopped, the pallets freely rocking without contact?

[bangster]

This is a HUGE key, depending on EXACtly what you observed:

"rocking": When pallets were rocking, was there a tooth against either one, rocking with it or was wheel stopped, the pallets freely rocking without contact?

Couldn't tell...hard to see...but it didn't act as if the EW was locked. As I said, move the pendulum to one side and EW immediately ticked over. But not a very vigorous tick. Acted like tooth was rubbing on pallet, ready to move.

Still looking like weak power to me. Aaarghhh.
...

[Jay Fortner]

Hey Bang, how's the condition and angle of the pallet faces and could the anchor be to deep?

[shutterbug]

Also, was it a gradual slow-down and stop, or can you observe a big jolt, then stop? Have you tried marking the wheels to see if there's consistency in the stopping place?

[bangster]

Hey Bang, how's the condition and angle of the pallet faces and could the anchor be to deep?

That's what Shutt wants to know. I'll see if I can get a useful pic.

[bangster]

Also, was it a gradual slow-down and stop, or can you observe a big jolt, then stop? Have you tried marking the wheels to see if there's consistency in the stopping place?

A: Gradual.
B: No, not tried that this time. Tried it earlier in the saga, and found nothing.